What is a gritty trigger?

[saudadeii]

Trigger weight is how much force you need (how hard you have to squeeze) to go all the way to bang.

So if the takeup is light, and the disconnect is moderate, and the release is heavy, the release will determine the trigger weight.

[saudadeii]

My new sp2022 had a gritty trigger, but after a few hundred rounds and a couple cleaning sessions, the trigger is starting to smooth out. I hope it only gets better because I like that the trigger pull is lighter then the P226.

It will. My 2022 is like butta. It's about 800 rounds now. My Beretta M9 is smooth but hard. I can see the FP safety move but can't really feel it yet but it's less than 100 rounds.

[tbc]

Gritty trigger is what I used as an excuse after having a bad day at the range. .

[CK_32]

Gritty trigger is what I used as an excuse after having a bad day at the range. .

Man you better have all your guns checked then

[9mmepiphany]

Thank you. This helps a lot. Another question.

When people refer to trigger weight, is this after the "take up" and before the trigger reaches the sear?

It is the total weight you need to apply to the trigger for it to release the sear.

What you'll feel in a M&P is:
1. The weight of the trigger return spring...during the takeup. This is relatively smooth unless your trigger bar is scraping the frame or your trigger pivot pin is hanging up.

2. The pressure of the top leg of the trigger bar against the striker block; pushing it up against the striker block spring. The spring isn't very strong, but the striker block isn't usually very smooth and may not be ideally contoured...this is felt as grit.

3. The sliding of the trigger bar against the lobe of the sear as it levers the front of the sear upward...this can also be felt as grit. Then you add the pressure on the rear of the sear sliding downward to release the striker which is being held against it by the striker spring.

Any lack of smoothness in any of the interfacing surfaces can be felt as gritty travel

[nastyhabts26]

A gritty Trigger is a new cocktail being served at TGI Fridays.
Amble up to the bar and order a "Gritty Trigger"
Smooooooooooooooooooth

[timbo399]

I know this is handgun forum but since question is about gritty triggers, I was very disappointed after purchasing a used Daniel Defense AR with the trigger- you could definitely categorize it as extremely "gritty"- feels like scraping nails against a brick before it breaks.
It was advertised as having 500 rounds through it and used in a training class for a day so had a bit of wear, but showed me receipt and had just bought it brand new 3 mos before receiving from him. Trigger was so bad I almost started to think may have been swapped out! On higher end AR15's such as DD, what could be the cause of this? I only field strip my AR's and have never taken apart trigger group. Could this be normal even for a higher end AR for certain reasons? I dripped some oil in and still the same. Swear I was about to contact the guy and say what the heck is up w the trigger?
But since then I bought a brand new LMT CQB MRP and the trigger isn't as smooth as thought it would be, given LMT is another reputable AR maker. Not nearly as bad as the DD, but I was surprised that the trigger pull is a bit gritty, but still manageable and fine for my needs.
I understand possibly even w higher end AR's shouldn't expect perfect smooth trigger without doing a trigger upgrade but I don't feel like buying a high end drop in kit for the DD, just wondering if I got ripped off or if AR15 triggers can really be that gritty even on higher end models. I had a LWRC REPR AR10 and that trigger was smooth as butter (and was the basic LWRC trigger, not the upgrade model). And I have another lower end AR15 that has a pretty "crisp" trigger. What could be the deal with my used Daniel Defense I bought off Calgun member, the trigger is awful!! Gritty is an understatement. anything to look for or quick remedy?

[Merc1138]

I know this is handgun forum but since question is about gritty triggers, I was very disappointed after purchasing a used Daniel Defense AR with the trigger- you could definitely categorize it as extremely "gritty"- feels like scraping nails against a brick before it breaks.
It was advertised as having 500 rounds through it and used in a training class for a day so had a bit of wear, but showed me receipt and had just bought it brand new 3 mos before receiving from him. Trigger was so bad I almost started to think may have been swapped out! On higher end AR15's such as DD, what could be the cause of this? I only field strip my AR's and have never taken apart trigger group. Could this be normal even for a higher end AR for certain reasons? I dripped some oil in and still the same. Swear I was about to contact the guy and say what the heck is up w the trigger?
But since then I bought a brand new LMT CQB MRP and the trigger isn't as smooth as thought it would be, given LMT is another reputable AR maker. Not nearly as bad as the DD, but I was surprised that the trigger pull is a bit gritty, but still manageable and fine for my needs.
I understand possibly even w higher end AR's shouldn't expect perfect smooth trigger without doing a trigger upgrade but I don't feel like buying a high end drop in kit for the DD, just wondering if I got ripped off or if AR15 triggers can really be that gritty even on higher end models. I had a LWRC REPR AR10 and that trigger was smooth as butter (and was the basic LWRC trigger, not the upgrade model). And I have another lower end AR15 that has a pretty "crisp" trigger. What could be the deal with my used Daniel Defense I bought off Calgun member, the trigger is awful!! Gritty is an understatement. anything to look for or quick remedy?

I don't recall DD being known for making/using amazing high end triggers. If anything their ARs are a decent "middle of the road".

If you want a nice trigger, just buy one. We're talking about an AR, plenty of drop-in options available.

edit: I'm not even sure how you can compare an LWRC repr to a DD rifle. The LWRC retails for twice as much. Same goes for LMT. LMT and DD make decent carbines, they're not match rifles, nor are they high end.

[missiontrails]

Stock CZ75B = gritty Metal on metal feel.

[timbo399]

I don't recall DD being known for making/using amazing high end triggers. If anything their ARs are a decent "middle of the road".

If you want a nice trigger, just buy one. We're talking about an AR, plenty of drop-in options available.

edit: I'm not even sure how you can compare an LWRC repr to a DD rifle. The LWRC retails for twice as much. Same goes for LMT. LMT and DD make decent carbines, they're not match rifles, nor are they high end.

Yes I agree it's a simple fix especially with AR15's, buy a drop in kit, doesn't have to be a $300 one either. I was just wondering if DD in particular was known for gritty trigger actions. Simple question.
And I do understand that although Daniel Defense and LMT's are not "gold standard" custom built match AR's where I should expect match grade triggers by any means, I used the phrase "higher end" and "reputable manufacturer" when discussing those brands, which compared to the myriad of AR manufacturers that are out there, yeah, those brands would be considered "higher end".
Did that confuse you?
Maybe you should do a bit more research on your Ar15's, hell, just do a search on the Calguns forum here and read the feedback-
just a simple fact if you took a poll of the "higher end" out of the box manufacturers out there, DD and LMT would be on that list. And as far as very "HIGH END" Ar15's out of the box, LWRC would fit that bill and their triggers are better- although if you're paying double the price as you mentioned then you're getting ripped off, unless it's for the LWRC REPR I have, which I paid double the price cause it's .308.
Never claimed DD and LMT were gold standard match grade AR's, but certainly both are very well built AR's with great reputations. Describing LMT CQB MRT and Daniel Defense DDM4v7 as "middle of the road" AR's is ludicrous. Now back to the DD trigger issue...

[Merc1138]

Yes I agree it's a simple fix especially with AR15's, buy a drop in kit, doesn't have to be a $300 one either. I was just wondering if DD in particular was known for gritty trigger actions. Simple question.
And I do understand that although Daniel Defense and LMT's are not "gold standard" custom built match AR's where I should expect match grade triggers by any means, I used the phrase "higher end" and "reputable manufacturer" when discussing those brands, which compared to the myriad of AR manufacturers that are out there, yeah, those brands would be considered "higher end".
Did that confuse you?
Maybe you should do a bit more research on your Ar15's, hell, just do a search on the Calguns forum here and read the feedback-
just a simple fact if you took a poll of the "higher end" out of the box manufacturers out there, DD and LMT would be on that list. And as far as very "HIGH END" Ar15's out of the box, LWRC would fit that bill and their triggers are better- although if you're paying double the price as you mentioned then you're getting ripped off, unless it's for the LWRC REPR I have, which I paid double the price cause it's .308.
Never claimed DD and LMT were gold standard match grade AR's, but certainly both are very well built AR's with great reputations. Describing LMT CQB MRT and Daniel Defense DDM4v7 as "middle of the road" AR's is ludicrous. Now back to the DD trigger issue...

I hate to break it to you, but considering 50% of the people polled on this website support more gun restrictions, I don't take polls here seriously. And no, DD is not "high end". I didn't say DD was garbage, mediocre, or anything of the sort. Just because people consider low end ARs to be "mid range" doesn't make them correct. Heck, there's even been people posting about how awesome their vulcan/blackthorne/heese products are.

Simply put, you can't expect DD to include a trigger that's going to cost 1/4 of what the MSRP is. What you're going to get is the same trigger they include in their LPKs which is a bog standard "mil-spec" trigger.

[timbo399]

yes I definitely agree w your last statement. Appreciate your input and and can simply agree to disagree on other points. Read too many posts in this forum and Sniper Hyde, etc of people raving about fit, finish, and accuracy out of box of their LMT's and DD's, and yes, LWRC would be considered "high end" compared to those. That's why I didn't use that term. Thank you for your input.

[CAGLS]

A gritty trigger on for example a CZ is usually due to parts (in the action) rubbing against each other with surface machining marks from dull tooling. The areas that affect the trigger feel are the trigger bar, bottom of sear cage where it contacts the trigger bar, the bottom of the sear that contacts the hammer hooks, the sear pin, the firing pin block, fpb lifter arm, the disconnector, hammer strut bar, and the hammer hooks.

The gritty feel can be smoothed out somewhat by dry firing and live fire but it will never have the feel of a full trigger job. Surprisingly, I have had to polish some of these areas on my SP-01 Shadow Target which already had a trigger job from CZ Customs but I still felt the grit in the trigger pull. Once I disassembled the fire control group, just as I suspected machining marks on the underside of the sear, bottom of the sear cage, and trigger bar. I did David's technique and it is ball bearing smooth now resulting in a mirror finish on those contact points.

David of Cajun Gun Works has written a tutorial in the CZ forum:

"Smoothing the Action"

All pics are from David's tutorial.
Here's the stock trigger bar:

I (David master gun smith/owner of CGW) have decided to start a thread that details key areas of the CZ action that benefit from smoothing. The gun in this thread is a CZ Custom Shop SP-01. It has the comp hammer, tactical sights, 13# hammer spring, and the hammer strut has been contoured and ploished. I could not test the DA before since my electronic scale only goes to 12#'s and this pistol was off my scale. Anyway, here's a before pic of the trigger bar:


This is an after pic of the same trigger bar. The DA disconnector contract area on this trigger bar is the worst I have ever seen. The tooling used to cut it was worn out. However, it can still deliver good performance with careful prep and polish. I use 3M aluminum oxide paper in 400-800-1000 increments, followed by a super fine polishing compound done with a felt wheel mounted on a dremel. I should be able to see my finger prints in the polished areas of the trigger bar once done, in essence, it's a mirror finish. I'll work through the action and post pics as I go.



quoted from David of Cajun Gun Works from his "smoothing the action" tutorial:
If there are deep tool marks, do not attempt to remove them, since it's the smoothness of the area that matters, not the appearance. This trigger bar has really bad tool marks on the disconnector contact face, so it will get smoothed only, the tool marks will remain. Here's a pic of just how crude this bar is, but I am finished with this area:

Here's the trigger bar and disconnector as they look when installed in the pistol. I estimate 85%+ of the friction in DA is right here, so taking extra time to smooth and polish in these areas will deliver great dividends. The goal is to remove as little metal as possible and still acheive a a mirror finish. Also, nothing beats the actual wearing in of the action, so I consider this as the foundation for an even smoother action in a short time frame.

I have also been testing a very high content moly grease that can actually lower the DA pull a few ounces by itself, so I add the moly in these critical areas when I do a final reassembly.


Finally have a little free time to get this finished. Here is an area of major importance, the sear and hammer. Note in the first pic a stock CZ sear. I have seen these vary from not to good, to a miniature wash board.


Next pic is the hammer area that rubs against the underside of the sear. If the hammer is rough (and it is most of the time) combined with a "wash board" sear, means a really gritty feel when cocking the hammer.


Last pic is the sear underside after polishing along with the hammer contact area. Done right, you now have a butter smooth cocking feel. Next post will deal with the firing pin lifter arm, firing pin block plunger, and the hammer strut. All CZ's that come to my shop for action work have this performed. The difference, before and after, is dramatic.


Firing pin lifter arm (in the sear cage), firing pin block plunger (in the slide), and the sear cage pin. Note I did not remove all the tool marks on the lifter arm. Removing to much can reduce how high the plunger is raised, which can cause mis-fires, so be careful here. Also the plunger needs to be mirror polished. Also, installing a light plunger spring, which I offer, literally takes the "feel" of the entire lifter and plunger away. The real resistance once these steps are taken is the trigger return spring.


If you want to really knock it out of the park, add these to the action job. The first is the hammer strut. Note the lower area is the main place you want to concentrate on, but obviously don't omit the upper hammer pin-strut hole and sides.


The rear of the slide is generally overlooked. The area of the slide that contacts the face of the hammer can be sharp, rough, uneven, or all of these. True it, bevel, and polish.


David does sell many upgraded parts that have a hardened and very smooth finish to negate having to polish some areas.

[geedavell]

Maybe a stupid question but.........would it help to put 1000 grit diamond lapping compound on the interals of the trigger when you first buy a M&P? Shoot it a bit then clean out the lapping compound? i would think it would help the " wear in process" that much faster?

[CAGLS]

Maybe a stupid question but.........would it help to put 1000 grit diamond lapping compound on the interals of the trigger when you first buy a M&P? Shoot it a bit then clean out the lapping compound? i would think it would help the " wear in process" that much faster?

I have heard of that technique but with toothpaste. It may help smooth it out a bit but then it should be disassembled and cleaned to get the compound out or maybe submerge it in a large sonic jewelry cleaner. I suggest just disassembling the gun and following the gradual sanding with 3M aluminum oxide paper in 400-800-1000 increments of the contact areas, the polishing with Flitz compound using a dremel. I did this on the trigger bar, firing pin block plunger, and aluminum striker pin on a Ruger SR40C striker fired and smoothed out the trigger tremendously.