DOJ FUD? Re: PM-11

[pwall]

What would you guys do. I have the opportunity to trade another member for a cobray pm-11. I was unsure of the legality, but I know others have ppt'd them here before. I called and sent an email to doj about legality.



******,
Thanks for taking my call. Here is a photograph of the pistol I found off the
internet. The gun I want transfered includes 1 ten round magazine, and does NOT
have a threaded barrel. As you can see the magazine is inserted in the pisol
grip "well", not anywhere outside. The markings read Cobray PM-11/Nine MM.
Thanks for your time,
Patrick


They responded with this.


Regarding the legality of the Cobray PM-11: The California Department
of Justice Field Representatives and other staff personnel cannot render a legal
opinion on this particular firearm. We can only point out that Penal Code
section 12276(b)(3) classifies all MAC types as assault weapons. If you visit
our web site and open up the Assault Weapons Identification Guide, you will see
the MAC type on page 44.
If still unsure of the legality, we advise you consult an attorney.

If you further questions, please call me at 916-263-4885.




So, I really like and want this gun, but this email kind of spooked me. Note they DIDN'T say it was illegal, just refered me to P.44 of the AW guide. The weapon on p.44 appears IDENTICAL to the PM-11, however does not list specifically Cobray, or PM-11. If i've learned anything from Harrot its that names matter. Obviously all the ar's and ak's on this site are IDENTICAL to named aw's. I would think the same applies in this situation?

[resistor]

You would be right.

1. the PM-11 is not listed
2. by feature, it is not an assault weapon
3. be glad you already own all of those hicaps
4. enjoy!

[ar15barrels]

From page 44:

MANUFACTURER: various manufacturers
MARKINGS: RPB sM10 or sM11, SWD Inc. M11, Advanced Armament Corp. M11, and
Military Armament Corp. M-11. These weapons are usually found with the
appropriate marks on the right side of the receiver above the pistol grip.

I don't see the Cobray PM-11 listed there.

[wilit]

Just make sure you know exactly what is stamped on the side of the pistol. Some early Cobrays were apparently also stamped with an SWD. That would be bad.

[CSACANNONEER]

All "Mac types?" I want to call and ask them if that includes "mac and cheese!" I'm sure glad that as the alledged "experts on firearms" for California, they are unable/unwilling to express their "expert opinion" to anyone.

[bwiese]

[The DOJ BoF] responded with this.

Regarding the legality of the Cobray PM-11: The California Department
of Justice Field Representatives and other staff personnel cannot render a legal opinion on this particular firearm.

We can only point out that Penal Code section 12276(b)(3) classifies all MAC types as assault weapons. If you visit our web site and open up the Assault Weapons Identification Guide, you will see the MAC type on page 44. If still unsure of the legality, we advise you consult an attorney.

If you further questions, please call me at 916-263-4885.

Sounds like we need to make this phone number ring and offer polite but firm 'clarification'.

"Series" membership cannot exist without formal legal declaration, and DOJ even gave up that right due to AB2728. The list of bad guns is frozen, new series membership cannot be asserted for "series" guns, and other new guns can't be added to the list even for non-series.

[CSACANNONEER]

[The DOJ BoF] responded with this.




Sounds like we need to make this phone number ring and offer polite but firm 'clarification'.

"Series" membership cannot exist without formal legal declaration, and DOJ even gave up that right due to AB2728. The list of bad guns is frozen, new series membership cannot be asserted for "series" guns, and other new guns can't be added to the list even for non-series.

Should we pick a day and have a phone-a-thon?

[wilit]

[The DOJ BoF] responded with this.




Sounds like we need to make this phone number ring and offer polite but firm 'clarification'.

"Series" membership cannot exist without formal legal declaration, and DOJ even gave up that right due to AB2728. The list of bad guns is frozen, new series membership cannot be asserted for "series" guns, and other new guns can't be added to the list even for non-series.

Didn't the "series" Cat 2 classification only apply to ARs and AKs? So since the MAC firearms are listed as Cat 1's, isn't the "series" phrasing a moot point?

[bwiese]

Didn't the "series" Cat 2 classification only apply to ARs and AKs? So since the MAC firearms are listed as Cat 1's, isn't the "series" phrasing a moot point?

Correct, "series" only applies to AR and AK 'series' guns because 'series' was used in the original Roberti-Roos entries: "AR15 series".

So they went along and tried to make a new series...

[AJAX22]

No, Mac's were never a 'type' of firearm

Militant Armermants Corp (M.A.C.) was a company that made the M11 in 380 and the M10 in 9mm and .45

RPB M11/9 SWD M11/9 Cobray M11/9 etc... were never made by MAC

I still think the M11 isn't a listed gun either, since it specifies the ingram M-11 not the ingram M11

punctuation counts

but thats just my opinion

[Pointcrossed]

Yep those are not considered assault weapons and that's great to hear that the DOJ actually determined that too.

[pwall]

this is horrible
im so torn. I find myself thinking the same thoughts that I first thought when I found out about off list rifles. Its legal, but not! Its legal, BUT NOT!

WTF???

[JTROKS]

I'd say get it. If it's not listed and it doesn't have the evil features then it's legal. Why do you think they haven't made any move against the thousands of OLLs being DROSed in CA?

When is the phone-a-thon?

[pwall]

I didn't want to start a phone a thon! the guy seemed really nice over the phone and i want everyone to know by posting this Im not trying to put down the DOJ BOF, I simply wanted opinions from them and you guys. Ammobros a few days ago said they'd be cool with the transfer. I would assume an ffl would know what they can do and what they cant. Would they get in trouble if something wasn't right?

[hawk1]

I didn't want to start a phone a thon! the guy seemed really nice over the phone and i want everyone to know by posting this Im not trying to put down the DOJ BOF, I simply wanted opinions from them and you guys. Ammobros a few days ago said they'd be cool with the transfer. I would assume an ffl would know what they can do and what they cant. Would they get in trouble if something wasn't right?

Yeah, after all it's better that a nice guy tramples all over yours and our rights...