Need info on this revolver

[Gavelek]

I have inherited this S&W revolver, and I have couple questions,
first, it has been neglected, awfully dirty, I started cleaning it, with Hopes and Lube, regular stuff, but all the dark spots are still there, so what would be the best to clean it...

the next questions is regarding the ammo, on the barrel it says 38, guys on the range told me that it is 38S, but it requires a "snub nose" bullets?, as you see on one of the pics, the regular 38s bullet sticks out and you can't close the mag, so where can I get those special bullets, any links you can give me?

Is there any collectible value in this gun, it must be at least 50 years old.

As always I look forward to your expertise, thanks

[003]

The .38 S&W is a revolver cartridge developed by Smith & Wesson in 1877. Though similar in name, it is not interchangeable with the later .38 Smith and Wesson Special due to a different case shape and slightly larger bullet diameter.

The British military adopted a loading of this cartridge as the Cartridge, S.A., Revolver Ball, 380 in, MkI .38-200, with the "200" referring to the weight of the bullet in grains. In 1937, this cartridge was replaced in British Service by the Cartridge, S.A., Revolver Ball, 380 in, MkII. The main difference between it and the previous round was that that it had a 178 gn. FMJ bullet.

[nastyhabts26]

.38 short
I have seen this on some online ammo sales.
Not very popular these days, but available for a price.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

You need .38 S&W as previously stated, a comparison for the visual attuned, .38 S&W on the right, .38 Special on the left.

[Gavelek]

that was fast, any tips on cleaning it and value?, many thanks

[rsmorgan]

.38 S&W is one of the oldest cartridges still being made. Since so many guns were made for it it remains reasonably available if you keep your eyes open. Uses a .360 bullet which makes reloading a challenge. Ballistics are not anywhere near a .38Spl (typical factory load is 146gr slug at about 685fps) but are set based on the limits of old guns. Modern (ie: WWI or later) revolvers can handle a significantly more powerful load along the lines of a 150gr bullet at about 750fps or a 200gr pill at maybe 650fps. This was the old .38 Super Police and .380 Webbly load that became the British .380/200. In terms of combat effectiveness, the old "Webbly Manstopper" load with what amounts to a 200gr wadcutter is definitely superior to a .38Spl with a RNL bullet. While not in the same class as .38Spl the .38 S&W is usually considered a reasonably effective handgun load. Lots of info out there if you dig for it.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Oh and that's not an S&W revolver; I do believe it's a Forehand Arms.

Multiple hits on Google here.

Pictures that match up here.

This looks about the same:

[Gavelek]

followed your links, if it's in pristine condition the value might be about 200, still for me it is sentimental, it was my uncle's who passed away many years ago, I looked through his tool boxes before my aunt discarded everything and I found this gun tucked in between old drills and hammers. I'd like to shoot it just for fun and put it away for next generation.

[rsmorgan]

It is an H&R - you can read it on the barrel markings. Yes, this is the same H&R that made M1s, M14s and M16s.

H&R was one of the better "second tier" revolver makers. Not a lot of info available on these guns but the best I can do is suggest a Google search and have patience looking at what you find. You have a solid frame DA, which could date from as early as 1883 or as late as 1941. Hard to tell when these things were made, although based on condition I'd guess your gun is more likely from 1900 to 1941 rather than earlier. This was the lower-end of the H&R line; H&R also made break-top guns that generally have more collector interest.

The H&R revolvers were not made to use smokeless powder ammo until about the turn of the century. If you really want to shoot it, I'd err on the side of caution and find some of the .38S&W "cowboy" loads that are made-up with BP or a BP substitute.

Except for some of the .22s, there really isn't much financial value in H&Rs, Iver Johnsons and similar revolvers. Not that many years ago at gunshows you would occasionally find a bunch of them in a bucket with a "Your choice - $20" sign. Your gun looks to be in pretty good shape. If you found someone who wanted to buy one you might get $50 to $100, but it is pretty hard to find people who are interested in these things.

Clean the gun just like you would any other all-steel revolver. One of H&Rs selling points was that they used "first class materials." The plating probably will not come off with normal cleaning, but if it does it was going to come off fairly soon anyway, but use rags and soft brushes on the exterior rather than a wire brush.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

I'm still going with Forehand Arms:

Forehand and Wadsworth was established in 1871 and in 1890 the name was changed to Forehand Arms Company.They made several models of revolvers, both large and small frame { also made shotguns }. Most of these firearms were small mail order type firearms which sold for only a few dollars { 2.98$ } In 1902 Forehand was taken over by Hopkins and Allen who continued to manufacture many of the same models, changing only the markings. H&A stopped operations in 1915.

I think it's and "H and A" not "H and R" on the barrel.

[Gavelek]

Thanks again, I see that shooting it might be an issue, I might just clean it and hang it on the wall, maybe put it in a shadow box, I really like the look of this gun

[rsmorgan]

Forehand and H&A were in Norwich, Connecticut. Location on the gun is Worcester, MA which is H&R.

[Chaos47]

QuarterBoreGunner was close but rsmorgan got it.

It's definatly an H&R.

I own a H&R 632 Guardsman in 32SW that has the same kind of Pull Pin Cylinder, interesting little revolver.
What makes it even cooler to me is that I was born in Worcester, MA.

QuarterBoreGunner, if you look at the photo of the Forehand Arms you posted the pull pin detent, the trigger, the hammer and grips are all a different then OP's.

This apears to be a "The American Double Action" model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_%26_R_Firearms

The American Double Action (large solid frame centerfire revolver) Manufactured 1883–1941. Calibers: .32, .38 & .44 (850,000 were manufactured).

Photo shows a .32 version




OP Check out this link:

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=99307

[QuarterBoreGunner]

I bow to Chaos47 and rsmorgan's superior knowledge - looking again and doing a CSI on the pictures (ENHANCE! ENHANCE!) you are indeed correct and I was wrong.

Still a cool little revolver.

[dfletcher]

In 38 S & W I believe H & R called it the "Victor" model.