Contact pressure with the muzzle cause failto fire

[alvgalb]

Have you ever hear that pressing the pistol muzzle on a solid surface at the time of firing cause failure to discharge?, it happens to me once pointing the pistol close to a tree trunk, do you know an explanation for this? is that happens with any semiauto pistol or some brands only?

Thanks
alvgalb
Breckenridge, CO

[billofrights]

Why would you be trying to shoot with the muzzle pressed against a tree?

I can see that maybe anything with an articulating barrel might not fire, but I haven't tried. I've never shot a tree.

[alvgalb]

I don,t say that it is usual to fire at so close range but in practical terms you can be extremely close to a target or a solid surface in a emergency situation and have the pistol fail to fire when you less need it

[billofrights]

Seems dangerous to test, but I don't know for sure. I'm certain someone has done it and can tell you definitively. If you're talking about a target in an emergency situation, organisms are not a "solid surface."

[redcliff]

Most pistols are designed this way so that you don't get an out of battery discharge which would blow up the gun. If the breach (part of the slide) isn't all the way forward the disconnector will prevent firing.

For contact shots you want a revolver and its one of the reasons some people choose revolvers for bear defense versus using a pistol.

[DVSmith]

I had a CQB instructor demonstrate this with dummy cases he had made to show the firing pin strike. The point being that as a "last resort" pushing the slid back would prevent some forearms from completing the discharge cycle. I don't know how prevalent this is with striker style firearms such as GLOCKs, but it worked pretty consistently with 1911 style firearms that he used for demonstration.

I haven't thought of it much as I don't think I would try it as likely as I would try a deflection, but he felt it was important to demonstrate.

[lilro]

Most pistols are designed this way so that you don't get an out of battery discharge which would blow up the gun. If the breach (part of the slide) isn't all the way forward the disconnector will prevent firing.

For contact shots you want a revolver and its one of the reasons some people choose revolvers for bear defense versus using a pistol.

Yup. But for semi's, the Springfield XD has an extension on the guide rod to prevent the slide from being pushed out of battery. Not sure how effective it is.

[alvgalb]

I'm trying to understand Redcliff rationale, then would be true to say that the slide will protrude a bit in front of the muzzle by some action-reaction resultant force during the firing?

[JeremyS]

I'm trying to understand Redcliff rationale, then would be true to say that the slide will protrude a bit in front of the muzzle by some action-reaction resultant force during the firing?

What?

It's pretty simple, in that most pistols are designed so they will not fire if they are not in battery (slide fully forward and barrel locked to the slide in most cases, or slide fully forward in a blowback-operated pistol). Pushing the muzzle of your gun up against an object can cause the slide to retract slightly, which will take it out of battery and make it so the gun does not fire. Two main variables: 1) when you push it against something, does it move the slide? If it's only pushing on the barrel or the frame, there's no reason it wouldn't fire. It must move the slide... 2) does it move the slide enough to take it out of battery to the point where the gun doesn't fire? There's some fudge factor where most pistols will fire even if not 100% locked up perfectly. Does that mean they stop firing at 98% lock or 95% lock or 90% lock? Depends on the pistol.

[winnre]

A 1911 will not fire if the slide is not locked forwards. Press the barrel against anything, even your other hand, and the sear is disengaged.

[eviioiive]

If youre ever in a situation with a gun pressed against your head, push back.

[redcliff]

A 1911 will not fire if the slide is not locked forwards. Press the barrel against anything, even your other hand, and the sear is disengaged.

Technically the sear remains engaged (to the hammer), but the disconnector moves down and no longer makes the connection between the trigger bow and the sear legs

And of course, it's not just 1911's; most quality semi-auto's have out of battery discharge prevention safety features to varying degrees, even GLocks!

[bohoki]

glocks do that too sometimes glock 21 springs get so weak they go into battery what looks like slow motion

its a safety factor heck you should always have a bit of standoff otherwise the bullet may expand in the muzzle

if you need to shoot something contact try an uzi or mac

[Sheldon]

As mentioned most pistols have some sort of "disconnector" which prevent them from firing if the slide is not completely forward. Most rifles have the same thing in their design so that they do not fire if the bolt is not locked/shut. It is dangerous for the weapon to fire otherwise.

In pistols the pressure of the fired cartridge is contained in the casing by the support of the barrel locked together with the slide. By the time bullet leaves the barrel and pressures are dropping, the rearward momentum of the slide would start retracting and then unlock from the barrel and as the case starts to come out of the barrel, the pressures should be low enough to not burst the casing.

If the slide were not "locked up" with the barrel there would be nothing holding the pressure in the fired case and it would push the slide and barrel apart from one another too soon and the then unsupported case would be exposed to the full pressure of the fired round and certainly burst like a balloon and cause a "KABOOM".

[tbc]

I just tested it in my room with a dummy round on my HK and Glock. I cocked them, pushed the muzzle (both barrel and slide) back to about 1/4 inch, pulled the trigger and nothing happen. Released the muzzle, pulled the trigger, the hammer/firing pin strike.



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