9mm Beretta vs 45acp 1911 effective range

[Alan Chen]

I've had a little bit of unexpected downtime lately and been going out to shoot on those occasion. It's been a while since I shot anything. Couple days ago shoot about 400 rounds at an indoor range and another 500 today at Angeles. I don't get to goto outdoor ranges often when I go I always shoot my rifles. I've never noticed the range difference between 45acp and 9mm until shooting it side by side today. Wanted to get you guys thoughts on it. Not a caliber war thread. I know 45acp are not meant to reach out to 100 yards and most defensive shots are fired within 10 yards. I would like to get people experience on their favorite caliber and the distances they normally like to shoot at.
I've been shooting for 15 years now, but don't get to shoot consistently. Anyways, it's been while since I shot, so I feel like I was a fresh hand and want to share
Up close, I loved the RIA 2011 tactical. I thought that's would be the only thing I want to shoot for a while. My accuracy with my 1911 at 16 yards was around 5 inch groups. At this distance, I didn't dig shooting my Beretta 92FS all that much. felt like the 45acp was easier to shoot and more accurate at this distance. Did not feel the 9mm was giving me more accuracy being a smaller caliber and less recoil.
At the outdoor range today the Beretta really shined. Pistol range starts at 35 yards and goes to 100 yards. At 35 yards, I was hitting 18 inch plates almost every shot. At 50 yards, still almost hitting every shot. Even reached out to 100 yards with the 9mm and was hitting a large ram about half of the time. Not sure how large the target was maybe the size of a real ram? Now comes the 45acp. When I line up the sights, the 45acp rounds are landing right in front of the target. I had to aim noticeably higher to ping the plates at 35 yards. Didn't even try for the 50 yards. I have a lot to learn when it comes to shooting 1911's so take it easy on me. Do all you 1911 sharpshooter learn to lob shots like that? If you do I am truly humbled and impressed. You can hear the difference between a 45acp hitting the metal plate and the little 9mm.
I did take the .40s&w sig 2340 out with me as well. The sig can reach out as far as the 9mm, but the accuracy really drops past 60 yards or so. At least in my hands. On a side note, after I changed the polymer guide rod with a ss one I couldn't hit a cow at 35 yards. I had the sig longest and shoot it best. Needless to say the plastic rod is back. DON"T go changing plastic for steel... not always better
Anyways, thanks for listening now what and how do you guys like to shoot? Anyone regularly shoots a 1911 past 50 yards?

[Freq18Hz]

Anything past 25 yards, get a rifle.

Handgun cartridges don't move bullets fast enough for long range accuracy.

You could try a really hot 357 out of an 8 inch barrel, but that's just silly in my opinion.


-Freq

[Alan Chen]

Anything past 25 yards, get a rifle.

Handgun cartridges don't move bullets fast enough for long range accuracy.

You could try a really hot 357 out of an 8 inch barrel, but that's just silly in my opinion.


-Freq

That's what I thought as well. I could not believe the beretta went out to 100 yards. It was a large target, but still!

[myk]

I'm just guessing here, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the twist rate in a 92FS is faster than a typical 1911, so is that smaller projectile and the higher twist rate responsible for the 92FS' longer range?

[lisinopril]

This is exactly one of the reason why I wanted a Berretta, not Glock, not Sig (not trying to offend anyone here...but) . It's considered one of the sidearm weapons in military until now, bro....Incredible huh? Can't wait to play with mine

[Cheezle56]

The 9mm is definitely flatter shooting than the .45 that helps with drop over distances, the 9mm is considered easier to shoot accurately, but in skilled hands they should both be comparable in accuracy, if anything, in theory, the 9mm should be worse since the bullet passes through the transsonic region before going subsonic, but there are so many other factors affecting pistol shooting that it's probably negligible. I cant think of why the 9mm does so much better than the .45 at distance.

[MrOrange]

OP: I'd say you need to work on the fundamentals and get your basic precision down pat before worrying about 100 yds.

If I read you right, and the .45s are hitting below the target at 35 yds, then you need to zero the gun. I zero my handguns at 25, and only have to aim about 4" high at 50. Holding about the center of the head on a silhouette target will put them nicely into the upper chest at 100. I've found these general guidelines work with fast .38s, and typical loads in 9mm and .45 ACP.

I've played around with .45s at 200, and it's pretty much indirect fire. Once I got a bracket and got on target, it was like: Bang! .................................................. tink

As to the level of precision the .45 ACP is capable of, let's just say that if a top bullseye shooter can't get 2" groups at 50 yds out of his 1911, he'll send the gun back to the gunsmith.

With fast magnum rounds, you can shift the zero out and extend your point-blank range. For example, with the .357, a 75 yd zero will let you hold dead-on out to 125 or so.
(I just realized I don't currently own any magnums. That's depressing.)

The speed of the bullet is not a major factor in accuracy or precision unless you're talking about extremes at either end of the bullet type/velocity scale. For example, I've shot .38 WCs at 100, and though they would go into 1 1/2" at 25, at 100 they were all over the place and the ones that did hit the paper were key-holing. The other end would be with rifle bullets re: yaw stabilization distances and then going sub-sonic down range. Speaking of twist rates, faster or slower isn't inherently better or worse, the key is that it be matched to the bullet and the usual velocity range it will be driven at.

Another example of bullet speed v. precision would be the black powder cartridge rifle dudes who shoot small groups way out yonder with big heavy bullets moving at 1,200 fps or so. Just a matter of knowing how much to come up on the sights.

[redcliff]

+1 MrOrange. The 9mm has a flatter trajectory but claims of improved accuracy over the .45acp are unfounded.

Instead of "holding over" to hit targets at longer range, thereby obscuring the target with your sights, try raising the front sight above the level of the rear sight and placing the target on top of the front sight. For instance, 1/2 of the front sight above the rear sight may allow for accurate fire at 100 yards. If 1/2 is too much try 1/4 above, etc. bracketing your target and learning the sweet spot for your particular handgun.

This is the method used by handgunning legend Elmer Keith for his 600+ yard .44 magnum mule deer handgun shots. He sometimes put horizontal reference marks on his front sights to aid in the technique. I've shot targets at 200 yards with almost any handgun by utilizing the same method.

[Alan Chen]

+1 MrOrange. The 9mm has a flatter trajectory but claims of improved accuracy over the .45acp are unfounded.

Instead of "holding over" to hit targets at longer range, thereby obscuring the target with your sights, try raising the front sight above the level of the rear sight and placing the target on top of the front sight. For instance, 1/2 of the front sight above the rear sight may allow for accurate fire at 100 yards. If 1/2 is too much try 1/4 above, etc. bracketing your target and learning the sweet spot for your particular handgun.

This is the method used by handgunning legend Elmer Keith for his 600+ yard .44 magnum mule deer handgun shots. He sometimes put horizontal reference marks on his front sights to aid in the technique. I've shot targets at 200 yards with almost any handgun by utilizing the same method.

Great tip. Thanks! I will try that next time. It's definitely a technique thing as I have minimal experience with 45acp.

[teflondog]

If Les Baer can offer 1911s with an accuracy guarantee of 1.5" groups @ 50 yards, then it's definitely possible to group reasonably well at 100 yards with .45 acp.

[Alan Chen]

If Les Baer can offer 1911s with an accuracy guarantee of 1.5" groups @ 50 yards, then it's definitely possible to group reasonably well at 100 yards with .45 acp.

Do you change out the sights for this type of shooting or do you just eyeball the elevation? It seems to me that you can zero your 1911 at whatever distance you like to shoot, but you'll have to compensate when you are close or far. Definitely takes lots of practice but it makes shooting it a lot of fun also

[DArBad]

I only shoot at distances of 7, 15, and 25 yards. So for all intents and purpose, the 9 mm and .45 acps are equal FOR ME within those shooting distances.

[WoodrowShootist]

[9mmepiphany]

Do you change out the sights for this type of shooting or do you just eyeball the elevation? It seems to me that you can zero your 1911 at whatever distance you like to shoot, but you'll have to compensate when you are close or far. Definitely takes lots of practice but it makes shooting it a lot of fun also

Not really. Remember that when you shoot for groups, you aren't always trying to hit center, you're just seeing how closely you can place your rounds. After you know what the gun is capable of, you can determine how much you need to rise your front sight blade to make hits where you want them.

Your 1911 really should be zeroed at 25 yards...it likely already is and you just need some work on technique...as that is a pretty standard range to zero pistols. As the distance gets longer, small flaws in technique, normally covered by the 1911's trigger, become more apparent

The 9mm does make it easier to hit at longer ranges...I hold dead on at 50 yards with any on my 9mms...due to it's flatter trajectory..

[rm1911]

45 acp and 9mm bullets are both coated with special powder. i am not sure when they do it, nor how they do it, but here's what happens:

for 9mm bullets - the powder coating makes the bullets do awesome things on a range. it makes them shoot flat and accurate, and has unique recoil absorbing properties, such that the snap of the gun is drastically reduced and functionality is greatly enhanced. it even is specially formulated to improve penetration in ballistic gelatin, giving the appearance of useful stopping power. however, upon contact with bad guy, the powder acts as a protective shield - for the bad guy. the bullets just bounce off bad guys like you were shooting superman. in fact, the powder induces a sense of humor in bad guys, making them laugh and scoff and the weapon. the powder also works to induce limp-wristing in all those polymer pistols. how it knows this, I've no idea.

for 45 bullets - the powder coating slows the bullet down in flight and makes it hard to hit targets farther out. and it also slows down penetration in ballistic gelatin. weird, but true. and sometimes the coating even induces malfunctions on the range. now, you'd think that that's a bad thing, but the secret is that it is designed to prepare for the user for any sceanrio, and you learn quickly how to tap and rack and clear jams. all of this is intended to make only worthy users choose 45's.

however, the coating on 45's has magical properties in the hands of true believers when confronting bad guys. one, the bad guy sees the 45, and instantly is paralyzed from fear. if however the bad guy is on narcotics and unable to come to his senses, the bullet will not just penetrate a bad guy, but will actually vaporize him, leaving a small puddle for CSI to clean up. if you miss the bad guy, which is almost impossible as the powder has bad guy homing properties, the bullet will redirect (like in dallas in 1963) and strike the bad guy, again, vaporizing him. and even if it fails to find the target, the mass of bullet traveling through the air, that alone, will create a pressure vortex that renders bad guy completely incapable of further bad guy intentions, thus enabling a second follow up vaporizing shot, or a speedy exit from danger.

the choice is clear. choose wisely.