Colt Commander vs Government frame questions

[Jetcutter]

Found a picture online (attached) that shows the difference between a Colt Commander and Government frame.

Seems like the Commander is a bit shorter on the frame (around 3/16" to 1/4"?).

I measured my Government model, from the rear of the frame to the area where the distance differs in the two models, I measured 3.545".

Can anyone with a Commander provide the equivalent measurement?

Thanks!

[redcliff]

Commander frame rails and recoil spring guide abuttment are .100 +/- .007 shorter than a Government's frame rail. Commander slides also have different ejector clearance slots than Government models and relocated slide hold open notches.

While a Government Model can be converted to a Commander its much more cost effective to just sell the Government Model and puchase a Commander for a similar amount then to spend the money machining the frame to match a Commander and buying a new slide assembly, recoil spring assembly and ejector. You won't be able to readily swap between slide assemblies due to the ejector differences unless you devise a quick-change ejector pinning method.

Even with the Commander's modified frame rail/recoil spring guide abuttment dimensions to gain back .100" of slide travel here are some slide travel dimensions to compare differences:
Colt Government model (5" barrel) approximately 2.136"
Colt Commander model, (4.25" barrel) approximately 1.945"
Kimber Compact model (4" barrel) approximately 1.923"

Les Baer uses a Government frame with their "Commanche" series but thats probably the most (only?) problem prone model Les Baer makes due to it. People often have difficulty sling shotting it due to the shorter than Commander slide travel not clearing the slide stop out of its notch.

Due to the compressed window of operation for ejection Commanders use an extended ejector to start the ejection earlier. As you get shorter and shorter on 1911's keeping your pistol in a constant state of tune becomes more critical; extractor tension, recoil spring replacement, magazines and ammo all need to be spot on for reliable operation. However, Commanders are probably my favorite 1911's due to their proportions and balance.

[wpage]

Google is your buddy!

[nitroxdiver]

Redcliff that was great. Thank you for the very informative post.

[Jetcutter]

Thank you redcliff!

I know, I was told to just buy two handguns .... but I didn't see a full steel Colt Commander made by anyone on the DOJ Roster.

The plan is to take a Rock Island Armory GI Model 1911, and modify the frame to accommodate a Commander slide. Also, plan on cutting the barrel down and recrowning to match.

I'll post some pics when it's done.

Thanks again!

[Horton Fenty]

.... but I didn't see a full steel Colt Commander made by anyone on the DOJ Roster.

Colt O4691. That's the blued one by Colt. There are more.

[-hanko]

Google is your buddy!

Maybe.

But Jerry Kuhnhausen's The Colt .45 Shop Manual (especially volume II) has drawings.

-hanko

[jyo]

I find (and I believe to be proven true) that the shorter the barrel (on a 1911 type) the more difficult it is for the gun to operate properly. I think that when you go below 4", the pistol really requires being built by somebody who knows what they are doing. For several years I casually looked around for a stainless "Commander" style pistol. I did find a slightly used Sprinfield Armory "Loaded" Champion model 4" that appears well-fitted and runs 100% with any 230 grain bullets---havn't tried any 185s.
Now if I could just find a 22lr conversion unit for this shorter pistol...

[richie328]

But Jerry Kuhnhausen's The Colt .45 Shop Manual (especially volume II) has drawings.

Drawings but no dimensions.

Does anyone have a 'blueprint' for the Colt Commander frame???

With the wide assortment of 80% 1911 frames available, it would be simple to convert one of these to Commander size.

[alland]

Drawings but no dimensions.

Does anyone have a 'blueprint' for the Colt Commander frame???

With the wide assortment of 80% 1911 frames available, it would be simple to convert one of these to Commander size.

The drawings of a Commander are Colt's proprietary design and I have never seen a copy of them.

The 5" 1911 design was/is owned by the government and is freely available to any and all.

[bwhited]

Dude, chill. If you look, you will see the post was from 2013. Colts were on the roster then.
If you want to pick on something then how about when he said "but I didn't see a full steel Colt Commander made by anyone on the DOJ Roster." How many companies make the Cold Commander? I would think one.

The Colt is not on the roster anymore. There are exactly no Colts on the roster anymore. Where have you been?

There are Rock Island, Wilson, Nighthawk, Dan Wesson, Ed Brown, Kimber commanders on the roster.

[SkyHawk]

Well since we're all here posting like idiots to a necropost that some newb decided would be his best first post, in a five year old & dead thread, here is new info.

COLT IS NOT ON THE ROSTER ANYMORE

Maybe five years from now this will have changed again and some other FNG will necropost a question or random fact out of the blue again here, like Rainman. Then we can wash, rinse, and repeat.

If you want to pick on something then how about when he said "but I didn't see a full steel Colt Commander made by anyone on the DOJ Roster." How many companies make the Cold Commander? I would think one.

Yeah, it is sort of a question that answers itself

[richie328]

Thanks for all the constructive replies!

I've actually been a member here for several decades, under another ISP. Couldn't login since I'm no longer with them, so I 're-joined'.

But the flames are OK. That's half the fun of a forum - Flaming new members.

I was able to download the picture in the post above showing the abutment and size it to get a measurement. I then milled the abutment out to take the 'commander' recoil spring guide . Polished the feed ramp and throat while I had it apart, waiting to take it to the range and see how it works. It was an inherited project from a local shop, commander slide on a gov't model frame. The shop had cut back the dust shield and rails but not the abutment.

Always a pleasure to get to know the active membership.

[alland]

Make sure that the lower lugs on the barrel are correctly modified to the Commander profile. The OD right in front of the upper lug must be reduced also. If not it will crash into the barrel bushing.

[bwhited]

I remember the first time I was buying a revolver. The salesman mentioned something about 357 Magnum and 38 Special. My reply was a confused look. Typical, he just went on with the sale instead of explaining what he was talking about.
Live and learn, hopefully.

Thanks for all the constructive replies!

I've actually been a member here for several decades, under another ISP. Couldn't login since I'm no longer with them, so I 're-joined'.

But the flames are OK. That's half the fun of a forum - Flaming new members.

I was able to download the picture in the post above showing the abutment and size it to get a measurement. I then milled the abutment out to take the 'commander' recoil spring plug. Polished the feed ramp and throat while I had it apart, waiting to take it to the range and see how it works. It was an inherited project from a local shop, commander slide on a gov't model frame. The shop had cut back the dust shield and rails but not the abutment.

Always a pleasure to get to know the active membership.