another hd ammo question?

[xSARSx]

so deciding to switch hd ammo and was thinking of buffalo bore either in +p 124gr jhp or +p+ 124gr jhp. question how does the +p compared to +p+? the P+ makes all the difference comapred to the +p? no particular reason of wanting to switch hd ammo just want to is all. also what do you guys think of double tap ammo? i was looking at the ballistics chart and doesnt look like much of a difference. what do you guys think? will be using it on my beretta m9a1

http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

[Roland Deschain]

I've been going off this, http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Sel.../index.htm#9mm, for HD ammo. Might be a little outdated but it's done me well so far *

* I haven't shot anyone in a HD situation or even ballistics gel but all recommendations have shot accurately during target practice

[SacTown]

What matters the most with HD/SD/Duty ammunition is testing it in your firearm for 100% reliability. Make sure to do so with whatever ammo you use.

[ipse dixit]

I've always been hesitant to use the +P+ ammo because there doesn't appear to be any standards set for this pressure, meaning that one manufacturer's +P+ is likely to be different from another manufacturer's. At least with +P, it's standardized and you know what you're getting.

Also, although the Beretta M9A1 can probably handle the additional pressure, doesn't the owner manual suggest that shooting +P+ frequently is not advisable? I don't know why that is, maybe it wears it out faster and can lead to failure or maybe something else?

[MA2]

BB's claimed data, both on the 124 grain:

+p
Muzzle Velocity: 1225 fps
Muzzle Energy: 413 ft. lbs.

+p+
Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 461 ft. lbs.


+1+ on reliability testing on whatever you choose.

[J-cat]

+P+ is for super heroes. Look what the bullet does in gel and see if the extra teenth of performance is worth the additional wear and tear and blast and recoil.

[sholling]

I keep +P in my full size weapons and when choosing self defense ammo I just cross reference what's available with what's on DocGKR's list and if I got a hold of some Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA) I'd use it. I'm not afraid of beating up my modern handguns with +P+ because it's for emergency use only - not practice and one home defense fight's worth of +P+ isn't going to destroy my M&Ps or 1911s.

What DocGKR has to say about Black Hills and other boutique ammo makers makes good sense to me. As long as the velocity, bullet, and quality control are the same the results should be the same.

-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)

[ipse dixit]

I keep +P in my full size weapons and when choosing self defense ammo I just cross reference what's available with what's on DocGKR's list and if I got a hold of some Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA) I'd use it. I'm not afraid of beating up my modern handguns with +P+ because it's for emergency use only - not practice and one home defense fight's worth of +P+ isn't going to destroy my M&Ps or 1911s.

That's a great point, but isn't there some value in practicing with the ammo that would actually be used in a HD situation? How do you establish whether your particular firearm likes a particular round without putting a sufficient quantity downrange during practice?

[laabstract]

That's a great point, but isn't there some value in practicing with the ammo that would actually be used in a HD situation? How do you establish whether your particular firearm likes a particular round without putting a sufficient quantity downrange during practice?

This is where I am not a fan of +P+ rounds I agree that you should be able to put some rounds downrange if you are going to be using it in a defense situation. But for the slightly better ballistics I really dont see the point. I stick with +p in my HD guns and have shot a decent amont of rounds through them with no hiccups.

Every gun is +p+...... at least for the first shot

[kurac]

I would worry more about reliablity and shot placement than how many p or +'s the ammo has. Seriously, we are talking about handgun ammo here do some testing in a balistic gelatin or soaking wet newspapers and you will see that there isn't a huge difference when it comes to handgun ammo.

Hit that test box with say a .223, 30-06 or 12Ga slug, then you will see some major differences

[sholling]

That's a great point, but isn't there some value in practicing with the ammo that would actually be used in a HD situation? How do you establish whether your particular firearm likes a particular round without putting a sufficient quantity downrange during practice?

I put 100rds of a new defensive cartridge through my home defense handguns to make sure it feeds 100% but I don't shoot the expensive stuff regularly. Sure it would be nice if we could all practice with our home defense rounds but I'm not the government and the taxpayers aren't picking up the tab for it so I make do with practice ammo. But realistically I'm more concerned with making sure my 1911s like a particular cartridge than my M&Ps because while a well tuned 1911 is perfectly reliable when fed rounds it likes from good quality magazines I have yet to have anything fail to feed reliably or eject cleanly with my M&Ps.

The one exception that I do make is with my Kahr PM40. The little beast is so small and such an abusive handful with my defensive load that I put one 5rd mag of the good stuff though it every time I take it to the range just to stay used the abuse but I'm left with a sore hand for a few days.

[J-cat]

I seriously doubt that a 127gr+P+ is going to work any better on a tweaker parolee than a standard pressure loading. That round is a dinosaur from times where you needed high velocity to get FBI spec performance. You don't have to do your own back hard testing. It's been done.