Springfield MC Operator Issues

[redcliff]

thanks Redcliffe I will try the loaded round test... is a snap cap sufficient or do i need a real round?

A real round; you need the weight of the loaded round.

[limitdown]

Are you using CCI's aluminum-cased rounds?
I bought a batch that was way out of spec. Case mouth diameter was too fat and case body was also too fat. I had issues feeding in 3 different guns. Those same 3 guns ate every other brass round I fed them.
If you have vernier calipers or a micrometer, measure the case mouth, body and overall length to see ifb they're within SAAMI specs.

[luckystrike]

oh ok, I took apart my MC operator today and pulled the extractor out. Immediately i noticed that it didn't come out all that easy and that when it was out the rod had a noticeable bend to the left towards the extractor claw which is why it was a little hard to pull out. I haven't gotten a chance to pull my Baer extractor out to see if that is straight or not.

as redcliff said, just eye balling it is not a good gauge of extractor tension.
its good that it didnt just drop rightout, if it ever does, thats a plain-as-day sign that it needs some tension. still be careful removing it, slip the hook off of the chamber face with a little plastic stick or something. Brownells has the gauge you need. there is an old back woods way of testing it, dental floss around a case rim, tie on to shopping bag, fill shopping bag with cans paying attention to how many Oz the cans are and add untill the case falls. not the best way but it will give you a ballpark of where it is at

[agl1911]

Redcliff, I did this test and the extractor is too too tight. Even shaken vigorously the round doesn't drop out.

Is the case rim underneath the extractor hook when it jams, or below it? They may have set the extractor tension too tight.

With the slide removed, slide a loaded round up the breachface into the firing position. The extractor should hold the case if you turn the slide upside down or lightly shake the slide but should release with more vigorous shaking. If too tight withdraw the extractor halfway out of its tunnel and bend it a bit to remove some case tension and retest till satisfied.

While its not always the answer, many 1911's that exhibit magazine and ammo sensitivity have this problem. I'd suggest checking your Les Baer also.

Extractor tension too tight=failure to feed. Extractor tension too loose=failure to extract/stovepipe.

[agl1911]

Just want to give an update. I adjusted extractor it still is a little tight BUT much better than before. I was little wary about putting so much pressure on that extractor rod.

I took it out today and put about 50 rounds through it and it fired flawlessly with every mag I had including my newly purchased wilsons and my older baer mags. I also used 3 types of ammo 3 different mfrs one being reload all fired with out issue. I am more confident that I can use this as a defense weapon with out fearing that it will jam on me. Few more test runs at the range in the comings weeks to verify that its still good, thanks again for everyone's input.

[redcliff]

Just want to give an update. I adjusted extractor it still is a little tight BUT much better than before. I was little wary about putting so much pressure on that extractor rod.

I took it out today and put about 50 rounds through it and it fired flawlessly with every mag I had including my newly purchased wilsons and my older baer mags. I also used 3 types of ammo 3 different mfrs one being reload all fired with out issue. I am more confident that I can use this as a defense weapon with out fearing that it will jam on me. Few more test runs at the range in the comings weeks to verify that its still good, thanks again for everyone's input.

Glad the extractor re-tensioning worked out for you!

I can't stress how strongly I feel that knowing how to check and set your extractor tension is essential for someone that enjoys 1911's. So many people replace and blame magazines or consider 1911's junk and unreliable when often it's just an extractor tension issue. I test my extractors every time I field strip for cleaning.

[StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca]

I have the LW Operator and it FTF on the last round pretty much everytime. It didn't do this for about the first hundred rounds but does it all the time now. I replaced the recoil spring but it still does it. I just bought a Wilson combat mag but haven't tried it yet. This is my first 1911 and I am pretty dissapointed especially considering what I paid for it.

[myk]

^^^Check out Redcliff's extractor tension check up above, or here in the quote:

Extractor tension too tight=failure to feed. Extractor tension too loose=failure to extract/stovepipe.

So, I tried the test finally and what I've encountered is that by merely placing the round in the extractor it sits securely and straight. Turning the slide upside down it sits securely and straight. When I shake the slide I get the faintest hint of the round moving but it doesn't fall out. If I start shaking the slide like I would a bottle of ketchup to get it all mixed up then the round eventually falls out. Would you consider this satisfactory?

[redcliff]

I have the LW Operator and it FTF on the last round pretty much everytime. It didn't do this for about the first hundred rounds but does it all the time now. I replaced the recoil spring but it still does it. I just bought a Wilson combat mag but haven't tried it yet. This is my first 1911 and I am pretty dissapointed especially considering what I paid for it.

Last round feed problems are generally the result of weak magazine springs or spread magazine feed lips. Weak recoil springs exacerbate the problem. The last round, which is under the least tension in the magazine, comes forward due to inertia as the slide recoils the pistol out from under the round, putting it out of position and leading to the malfunction's name i.e. "inertia feed". By the way, oil/lube in your magazine can contribute to this problem also. Keep your 1911 mags clean and dry.

Heres a picture stolen from Log Man on the 1911forum site that shows inertia feed in action. Notice how the empty case is in the air and the last round from the magazine has "jumped forward" despite the slide still being in the full rearward position. This puts the last round at the wrong angles and in front of the extractor, instead of against the breachface and under the extractor hook where it belongs.

^^^Check out Redcliff's extractor tension check up above, or here in the quote:

So, I tried the test finally and what I've encountered is that by merely placing the round in the extractor it sits securely and straight. Turning the slide upside down it sits securely and straight. When I shake the slide I get the faintest hint of the round moving but it doesn't fall out. If I start shaking the slide like I would a bottle of ketchup to get it all mixed up then the round eventually falls out. Would you consider this satisfactory?

It sounds a bit too tight. It should drop off right away with vigorous shaking. It's a learn by doing thing. Alternatively there are methods that use weights/trigger pull gauges and precision shims to check the tension (which I have) but still prefer the shake method for speed and simplicity.

To see if you set it a little too loose (but still are getting normal extraction and ejection) single load rounds into the pistol via the magazine and remove the magazine and fire. If the empty case eject normally with no stovepipes or dropping down the magazine well you are good. You should be able to run a couple magazines through single feeding like this with no failures. In normal operation the loaded round below the case being extracted helps support it so passing this test provides a safety margin.

[XDJYo]

A lot of VERY good information in this thread. That's what I love about this place. I LOVE THIS CROWD!

[agl1911]

Agreed this community rocks.

[Loubot10]

Redcliff's gonna have to change his name to 1911FG