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S&W 442 internal lock "reverse failure"?

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  • SFShep
    Member
    • Jul 2012
    • 182

    S&W 442 internal lock "reverse failure"?

    Hoping I might be able to get some advice on a matter of "reverse gun-safety" so to speak.

    I've been interested in purchasing a S&W 442 for a while now and with the huge spike in purchases nationwide (especially with the new NY law that limits magazines to 7 rounds), now is as good a time as any.

    That said, maybe some of you here can offer some advice. S&W makes two models of the 442. One with an internal lock (SKU 162810) and one without (SKU 150544). Here in CA the 442 with lock is listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale while the current 442 without internal lock is not (there is a no-lock 442 listed on the Roster with the SKU 102810, but S&W tells me that's an old and discontinued version).

    I was hoping to purchase the model without the lock but unless they approve the current non-lock model after this year's SHOT Show, I may have to settle for the locking model.

    So let me ask, have there been any instances of the internal locks accidentally switching on? Say you're shooting the gun and the recoil jars something loose in the locking mechanism and switches it on. Possibly in the middle of a gunfight, thus turning the gun into a paperweight.

    I don't plan on shooting any +P or +P+ ammo in it. In fact I plan to use standard pressure low recoil ammo to make it easier to handle. But I still fear the safety sort of "reverse failing" by switching on when I may need the gun. Here's the article where I got this impression from:



    Hope I can get some good advice to whether my fears are founded. Safeties on a gun can help prevent accidental discharge and a safety that fails and accidentally switches off could cause a negligent discharge. But the opposite can be true too right? An internal safety that needs a key to operate sounds like it could reverse-fail by switching on from the jarring of the recoil while you're fighting for your life in a shootout with an intruder (or mugger if you have a CCW) and render the gun useless. I'm hoping this is just a theory and hasn't actually happened.
  • #2
    DrewN
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 1887

    We have/had 4 different "New Classics" in our household (27,57,29,36) and have not been stingy with the hot loads. I've never even noticed the locks are there. If they worry you, it's straightforward to remove them.

    Comment

    • #3
      glockman19
      Banned
      • Jun 2007
      • 10486

      My daily carry is a S&W 442 or 624, both have internal locks...I have not had any issues with them after 5 years.

      If you don't like the lock it can be removed...but...I do not condone modifying any carry gun.

      Comment

      • #4
        SFShep
        Member
        • Jul 2012
        • 182

        Originally posted by glockman19
        My daily carry is a S&W 442 or 624, both have internal locks...I have not had any issues with them after 5 years.

        If you don't like the lock it can be removed...but...I do not condone modifying any carry gun.
        Exactly. I would never modify the safety on any gun I plan to carry. Cause I know if I have to use that gun in self defense and its discovered I modified the safety, I've signed my doom I'm court right then and there.

        Then again, I also don't want the internal safety lock to fail me and engage accidentally when I need to stay in the fight.

        Comment

        • #5
          The Mad Mule
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2012
          • 616

          Those locks on S&W revolvers is honestly what's been making me consider a GP100 and LCR more than the 686 and 442. I have seen (yeah yeah, it's the Internet and all that) reports and one video of the lock malfunctioning at the range. But for all we know, the lock was already half-engaged out of the factory, and it just needed a few jolts to knock it into full lock.

          Some Ruger revolvers have internal locks inside their grips, which irks me just as much, but I have yet to hear any reports of those locking up on their own terms.
          And on the third day, God created the Remington bolt-action rifle so that man could fight the dinosaurs. And the homosexuals.

          Comment

          • #6
            tuna quesadilla
            Calguns Addict
            • Apr 2006
            • 5147

            Originally posted by SFShep
            Exactly. I would never modify the safety on any gun I plan to carry. Cause I know if I have to use that gun in self defense and its discovered I modified the safety, I've signed my doom I'm court right then and there.

            Then again, I also don't want the internal safety lock to fail me and engage accidentally when I need to stay in the fight.
            Source? Case law?

            Comment

            • #7
              paul0660
              In Memoriam
              • Jul 2007
              • 15669

              Troll, trolling.
              *REMOVE THIS PART BEFORE POSTING*

              Comment

              • #8
                Bobby Ricigliano
                Mit Gott und Mauser
                CGN Contributor
                • Feb 2011
                • 17439

                The Ruger LCR is superior to the 442 in every way, and I've owned, shot, and carried both as BUG's.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Charlie50
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1114

                  Hey there neighbor... looking over the Carquinez Straight as I type this. I have a 642 with the internal lock and I shoot the s... out it with target and full power plus Ps. No issues. BTW you will find that many target loads using heavy bullets (158 grain) will have more recoil than plus P defensive loads intended for short barrels (Hornady Critical Defense 130 grain for example). Its an everyday carry that I bet my life on, no worries. Apparently a couple of long guns have had documented issues, I searched and found not one 642 verifiable failure.

                  BTW: I like the Ruger but just did not shoot as well with it. Potatoe Potaato... and there's the appearence of SW vs the Ruger. Can't go wrong with either IMO.
                  Last edited by Charlie50; 01-16-2013, 7:51 PM.
                  'I own the guns I own because I acknowledge mankind's shortcomings instead of pretending like they don't exist. There are evil men in this world and there just may be a time when I need to do the unthinkable to protect me or my family,'
                  Joshua Boston

                  "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics, is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." Plato

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    littlejake
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 2168

                    The Ruger LCR actually has an ILS in its fire control assembly. The key hole is covered by the Hogue Grips.

                    https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/lcr.pdf page 7
                    Life Member NRA and 2A Foundation.
                    My posts are my own opinions and do not reflect those of any organization I am a member of.
                    Nothing I post should be construed as legal advice; if you need legal advice, see a lawyer.

                    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
                    William Pitt (1759-1806)

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Raider888
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2012
                      • 891

                      Originally posted by Bobby Ricigliano
                      The Ruger LCR is superior to the 442 in every way, and I've owned, shot, and carried both as BUG's.
                      How is the Ruger LCR superior to the S&W 442??? Any details???

                      IMHO, The S&W 442 has a better trigger and a better quality revolver.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        DrewN
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 1887

                        How is the Ruger LCR superior to the S&W 442??? Any details???

                        Quite a bit cheaper mostly. The LCR has a pretty decent trigger and a nice big dot, the poly frame soaks up some recoil, and you'll never be bothered if it picks up a few dings. I love mine and I'm usually a traditional blue/walnut or nothing guy. It's a great EDC/everyday back-up with very low maintenence requirements.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          SFShep
                          Member
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 182

                          Originally posted by tuna quesadilla
                          Source? Case law?
                          It's written in the article from Massad Ayoob I included in my original post:

                          "I did not remove the internal lock, for the simple reason that I’ve seen a prosecutor raise hell about a deactivated safety device when trying to establish the element of recklessness that is a key ingredient in a manslaughter conviction. 'Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defendant was so reckless that he DEACTIVATED A SAFETY DEVICE ON A LETHAL WEAPON, and so arrogant that he thought he knew more about the gun than the factory that made it!' That’s a mountain I’d rather not have to climb in court, nor debate in front of twelve jurors selected in part by opposing counsel for their lack of knowledge of firearms."

                          He makes a lot of sense to me in his argument so rather than remove the safety I'd rather buy the model without the safety included and avoid the whole issue. For me on a DAO handgun, the heavy trigger pull is the safety itself.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            quiet-wyatt
                            CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 934

                            Originally posted by SFShep
                            I would never modify the safety on any gun I plan to carry. Cause I know if I have to use that gun in self defense and its discovered I modified the safety, I've signed my doom I'm court right then and there.
                            It's NOT a Safety - It's a LOCK. Two different purposes...
                            To do is to be. (Socrates)

                            To be is to do. (Plato)

                            Do be do be do. (Sinatra)
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Spdjunkie
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 1937

                              Originally posted by quiet-wyatt
                              It's NOT a Safety - It's a LOCK. Two different purposes...
                              ^ +1 Agree, You are not removing any "safety" mechanisms, only the ILS.

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