Just another rant against the ignorance

[BayouBullets]

In the last few months I have heard an astonishing amount of complete BS regarding the effectiveness of certain less powerful calibers used for concealed carry. I actually had one guy tell me he thought the humble .25 acp was less effective than a pellet gun. " ...might be effective in the face or the sternum, but would probably bounce off the skull..."
What are these people smoking??????
Take it from someone with LOTS of first-hand experience seeing what bullets do to pigs ( a very reasonable facsimile of the human body). ALL calibers are lethal. The .22 short, .25 acp, and .22 LR all easily penetrate the skull at close range. Jacketed .22LR has an extremely rare tendency to "follow the bone" if impact occurs at an obtuse angle (Not a problem with LRN). Otherwise, these so-called "under-powered" calibers are all capable of penetrating deeply enough to kill a man on the first shot WITH correct bullet placement. OH but WAIT! Some people are worried they'll miss that critical area with such a tiny bullet. For self-defense purposes, and even 90+ % of Police incidents, the max range is under 21 feet.
They may be more of an expert's weapon caliber, but I'm just really aggravated by the misinformation I've been hearing.

[Squidward]

I don't get too spun up by it.. I've seen all kinds of dead, from .22 to 12 gauge. I've also seen all kinds of still alive from .22 to 12 gauge.

It probably doesn't matter what you shoot; as much as that you do.

[five.five-six]

Aileen Wuornos used a .22. Just saying.

[Donk310]

I don't get too spun up by it..

Not sure why anyone does.

[BayouBullets]

Thank you, Doctor. I feel better now. I seriously expect some kid to die from testing soemthing like that skull theory someday. But I feel better getting it off my chest.

[DrMoebius]

I guess John Hinckley didn't get that memo. And, I don't think any of the 4 people hit by his .22 caliber Devastater bullets, including President Ronald Reagan, would consider the caliber ineffective. Nor did the one that hit White House Press Secretary "bounce off his skull"

[elSquid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c_awug8EeA&t=0m30s

-- Michael

[Red Devil]

In the last few months I have heard an astonishing amount of complete BS regarding the effectiveness of certain less powerful calibers used for concealed carry. I actually had one guy tell me he thought the humble .25 acp was less effective than a pellet gun. " ...might be effective in the face or the sternum, but would probably bounce off the skull..."
What are these people smoking??????
Take it from someone with LOTS of first-hand experience seeing what bullets do to pigs ( a very reasonable facsimile of the human body). ALL calibers are lethal. The .22 short, .25 acp, and .22 LR all easily penetrate the skull at close range. Jacketed .22LR has an extremely rare tendency to "follow the bone" if impact occurs at an obtuse angle (Not a problem with LRN). Otherwise, these so-called "under-powered" calibers are all capable of penetrating deeply enough to kill a man on the first shot WITH correct bullet placement. OH but WAIT! Some people are worried they'll miss that critical area with such a tiny bullet. For self-defense purposes, and even 90+ % of Police incidents, the max range is under 21 feet.
They may be more of an expert's weapon caliber, but I'm just really aggravated by the misinformation I've been hearing.

You shootin' those pigs w/ a .22 LR in a cage...

...or are you kickin' shoats out in the thickets and seein' what comes out after you?

[BayouBullets]

pistol .22lr and .25 acp; rifle in .22 short(depends on which/whose gun) in Cage traps. Until recently, you could hunt them here at night, but the rifle had to be a rimfire. Now they're so bad the state lets us use center-fires at night, except during deer season. I was using a 10/22 before that on the night hunts.

[SB1964]

I heard a guy say an AR is just a .22, good one. Plenty of people bash 9mm, My opinion because Law Enforcement stopped using it. Experts will tell you ANY Caliber is better than NO Caliber.

My Line when I hear similar crap..."Care to stand in front of it"

[Dellinger]

I love the .40 S&W and some love the .9 mm, others laugh and only shoot .45 ACP.
FACT:It's a good idea to use the "largest possible caliber firearm" that you can quickly place a controlled pair to the thoracic cavity of an advosary because all pistol caliber ammunition is ballistically insufficient.
You should shoot what you're comfortable with and remember the point of the tool is for it to be able to stop a dedicated opponent. Shot placement can be a b**** when the s*** hits the fan too. I remember the instructor say " You're only half as good in a gunfight as you are in practice!"
I still don't want to be shot with your 22 lr or especially the magnum, I could die or worse, live and trade in my guns for coloring books and crayons.
My $.02

[Wrangler John]

I recall many years ago reading in the S.F. Chronicle (yes there were newspapers then) of a fellow that reported to a hospital with at least one .25 ACP bullet lodged in his brain (I want to say the number was 5). He was fine, surgeons removed it (or them) without problems or the patient suffering any deficits. Cool anecdote, but then being of mostly Irish descent, my mother always said that an Irishman couldn't be harmed by hitting them in the head. However, it was the French and Indian part I was worried about.

I'm sorry, but I subscribe to the big is better school of weaponry. The point of self-defense is to instantly curb the threat not necessarily kill the perpetrator. That is best accomplished with sufficient hydrostatic shock and resultant neurological disruption. In my school of thought the 9mm Luger is the minimum, with something larger more reliable, and this from someone who carried a Browning High Power and S&W M-39 many years ago. The .40 S&W, 10mm, or .45 ACP are all preferable to those pipsqueak cartridges. One fellow on the department drug task force reacted when a dealer pulled a gun, he emptied his 9mm into the guy, with seven shots to the chest, more to the arms and legs, the assailant was still trying to crawl to his dropped pistol. You shouldn't have to reload in those circumstances. None the less, any caliber is better than tossing your Starbucks cup.

The 5.56 NATO was a political choice for a battle rifle cartridge. I use it for varmint, but the 7.62x39 and the 7.62x51 NATO are a tad better for creatures that shoot back. Laws of physics being what they are and all.

[Firerescuebatt07]

I have seen a few murders done with 22lr... Also a calgunner posted a thread about some idiot shooting his girlfriend over an argument about the walking dead or some other zombie show... He shot her in the back with a 22lr and the bullet pierced the lung, messed up some ribs and her diaphragm... 22lr bounces all over the place... If someone says that caliber or any other is not a killer their idiots and not worth arguing with...

[jeffrice6]

The .22 at one point was the hitman's cartridge of choice!

On a side note, my Grandfathers buddy had an "AD" with a 22 that struck him square in the forehead. The bullet disintegrated leaving a Jesus cross on his mellon......... A scar he had to explain for many years!

[IVth Horseman]

Shot placement, I repeat, shot placement. I recommend reading Evan Marshalls book on the topic. It shows how little difference there is between 25 & 45 as far as instant incapacitation goes.