1911 what should I know?

[shakeyjake]

I have alwas liked the 1911's but stayed away because I was told they unsafe(SA cocked and locked).Looking to get a Colt Gold Cup.Anything I should know as opposed to handling DA weapons?

[leelaw]

Yeah, they're addicting.

Be careful.

[aplinker]

The idea of 1911's being dangerous cocked and locked is such a myth. Getting "Glocked" is far more likely.

A Colt is an excellent choice. If you're going to carry it for duty and/or CCW, get a series 80. If you're going to customize it, find an older series 70.

They're VERY addicting and highly customizable.

The two things you will definitely want to customize are sights and grips. Play with lots of different ones until you get ones that feel right.

[ironpete]

My opinion:
It really comes down to how YOU feel. How were you trained? What do you feel comfortable with? What are your procedures and habits for storing and handling your firearms?

I started off using SA pistols, but was reluctant to keep one chambered unless I was actively shooting it. Now I don't feel weird with it cocked and locked, but that took some time.

On the other hand I'm a little skittish about carrying a DAO/USA/SafeAction pistol because I've heard nightmare stories of clothes getting caught in the trigger guard or holsters being too tight. All my "fun" guns are of this type and I don't have any problem with holster use, I just prefer a manual safety.

My advice would be to develop procedures which will become habits like testing the safety features before storing, loading or holstering.

Unload:
verify no mag
Check clear:
visually and tactile
Thumb safety check:
cock, lock and pull trigger, hammer should not fall
Grip safety spring check:
undo safety, hold vertically, push trigger, hammer should not fall
Grip safety check:
hold normally without engaging grip safety, pull trigger, hammer should not fall
Trigger check:
hold normally, engage safety, pull trigger, hammer should fall
Trigger + grip safety + rack = disconnector check
keeping trigger and grip depressed rack slide, hammer should not fall.

Takes about 20 seconds once you practice and it very much put my mind at ease.

That is only my experience and what it took to make me feel comfortable.

Good luck,

[BillCA]

I have alwas liked the 1911's but stayed away because I was told they unsafe(SA cocked and locked).Looking to get a Colt Gold Cup.Anything I should know as opposed to handling DA weapons?

First you should know that 1911's are addicting;
Second understand that Glock-ophiles & thier Sig/HK cousins won't understand.

If your goal is to obtain a fine target-shooting gun like the Gold Cup, look for a series 70. The triggers on these are better for precision shooting. A series 80 is okay, but if you want a better trigger you'll need to send it to a very good 1911 gunsmith.

Know that the recoil springs on the Gold Cup are lighter than the springs for 230gr ball ammo. The typical diet for target Gold Cups is a 185gr SWC (fmj or lead) with a light powder load. Shooting 230gr FMJ with this spring can cause battering. It's simple to swap out the springs (about 30 seconds) though.

I also recommend for anyone who wants to really do target shooting with a 1911 that they buy Jerry Kuhnhausen's The Colt 1911 shop manual (I think there are now two volumes). This will help you understand the workings of the gun and maintain it properly as well as understand when to take it to a gunsmith!

As far as handling the SA 1911 versus DAO or SA/DA style guns, the 1911's MOA is fairly straightforward.

Burn the following into your soul:
Rule #1: It's always loaded until you prove it ain't.
Rule #2: Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
......aka: Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!

Unlike DA/SA and some DAO guns, when you chamber a round in the 1911 it is ready to fire if you touch the trigger. Until you apply the manual thumb safety, the natural state of the 1911 is "fire". Other guns like the Beretta, non-1911 S&W's, Walthers, Sigs, etc. can be loaded & unloaded with the safety ON. The 1911 cannot. This may be why others say they are "unsafe". It's a matter of degrees and focusing on what you're doing.

With the safety on, the 1911 locks the slide closed and locks the action against dropping the hammer. In the event you drop your cocked & UNlocked 1911, the grip safety will not be depressed and should prevent a discharge.

It is possible to discharge a 1911 with the safety on. Since it has an inertial (floating) firing pin, if it is dropped on its muzzle or stopped suddenly while in motion, enough force can be generated to overcome the firing pin spring and discharge the weapon. The Series-80 is supposed to prevent that. (A recent incident in a hospital MRI room showed it's still possible but unlikely.)

The 1911 triggers run from a light 4 lbs to about 5.75 lbs which is usually much less than SA/DA guns. There is little trigger movement, so trigger-finger discipline is a must.

Hope that helps.


My "Commander" collection. Jus' showin off.

[shakeyjake]

BillCa when I grow up I whant to be just like you!!!!
Great hardware!!!
I'm very good with my handgun safty and own a few Da guns just never a SA.So what everyone is saying that practicing good safety is all I need.The info I recived many years ago about 1911 being unsafe was wrong.All that time wasted well I guess I'll just have to play catch-up.
Off to the gun store.

Thanks all

[Knauga]

I have alwas liked the 1911's but stayed away because I was told they unsafe(SA cocked and locked).Looking to get a Colt Gold Cup.Anything I should know as opposed to handling DA weapons?

I went from S&W semi-auto's (DA, hammer drop safety, mag disc etc) to a 1911 and it gave me the heebie jeebies until I got used to it. Like the others have said, basic gun safety 101 and you'll be ok. I carry my Springfield Armory Ultra-Compact cocked and locked. It took a little getting used to, but now it really is no different than carrying any other gun.

The idea of having the only safety be a part of the trigger (ala Glock) would REALLY give me the heebie jeebies, those are probably the buddies that are telling you that cocked and locked is unsafe

[Army]

Unlike DA/SA and some DAO guns, when you chamber a round in the 1911 it is ready to fire if you touch the trigger. But only if you have a firm hold and are depressing the grip safety Until you apply the manual thumb safety, the natural state of the 1911 is "fire". Other guns like the Beretta, non-1911 S&W's, Walthers, Sigs, etc. can be loaded & unloaded with the safety ON. The 1911 cannot. Unless you relax your hold enough for the grip safety to engage. This may be why others say they are "unsafe". It's a matter of degrees and focusing on what you're doing.

Fixed it a bit for ya!

Of course, keeping your finger OFF the trigger during periods of NOT shooting, will keep the 1911 as safe as any other pistol.

Obviously, anything mechanical can fail. Your job, is to make sure your brain does not fail

[JTROKS]

1911s are so addicting and famous than ever, just look at S&W and Sig jumping the bandwagon. The quality of 1911s have tremendously improved to a very high level, I can't believe the quality being offered by top makers of box stock 1911s such as Springfield Armory, S&W, Kimber and Sig. The ole days of rattlin' 1911s have gone by, pick up a Sig and the slide to frame fit is tight. The barrel bushing and barrel hood are fitted to match grade workmanship. Trigger weight on the other hand are still on the heavy side due to liability worries, but send it to a gunsmith that knows what they're doing and most of the time all it takes is tweaking the sear/trigger/disconnector spring. I recently inspected a Kimber and a Springfield Armory Loaded 1911s and all the features I mentioned were present on these specimens. I went to another table with anothe Springfield Armory 1911 and it rates the same. Most of the features coming out of the box used to be custom features only, Them boys in Berryville has their work cut out for them. However, a true custom 1911 such as an Ed Brown, Wilson, Nighthawk, DP, Yost, C&S, Clark, etc still have many features they can offer available only through an expert 1911 smith. Look at the winning trophies in pistol competition, it's all 1911s. Reason for it is, the platform is still the fastest and most reliable. You can make any gun shoot accurately, but making it reliable and fast is another matter. The 1911 is the expert pistolero's fighting handgun.

JTROKS

[Miltiades]

Application?

I have alwas liked the 1911's but stayed away because I was told they are unsafe (SA cocked and locked). I'm looking to get a Colt Gold Cup. Is there anything I should know as opposed to handling DA weapons?

You haven't mentioned your application for the Colt Gold Cup. This is normally a target gun that is not used for defensive purposes, so I presume you would be using it at the range, and keeping it empty in your safe the rest of the time. If that is the case, you may never have the occasion to engage the safety. I have several Gold Cups and only use them in this mode.

If you're buying a 1911 for carry and defensive use, in which case you would probably keep the gun loaded and chambered with the safety engaged, you might want a different model than the Gold Cup. The Gold Cup has a large, sharp rear sight that makes it uncomfortable to carry because it pokes you in the ribs and snags on your clothing. It also has a wider than normal trigger which doesn't fit well in most 1911 holsters. The Gold Cup weighs about 43 ounces loaded, which makes it a heavy load for carry.

Something like a Colt lightweight Commander model is a better candidate for carry, in my opinion.

[elSquid]

Looking to get a Colt Gold Cup.

Used I guess? Gold Cups are not on the DOJ's handgun list.

I'd like to have one myself, but I guess that the target sights make them much more dangerous than a standard Gov't model...

-- Michael

[motorhead]

your best buy is springfield armory. for a basic shooter or defense you can't beat it. if you plan on competition there are lots of high priced guns. gold cup you want series 70.

[shakeyjake]

It will be used for range and possiable 3 gun if I ever get the nerve.I have a Taurus PT45 for HD.

[BillCA]

BillCa when I grow up I whant to be just like you!!!!

Old and pudgy?!

I'm very good with my handgun safty and own a few Da guns just never a SA.So what everyone is saying that practicing good safety is all I need.The info I recived many years ago about 1911 being unsafe was wrong.All that time wasted well I guess I'll just have to play catch-up.
Off to the gun store.

If it's 3-gun matches you'll be shooting, I'd suggest the S&W 1911 as an excellent platform. Well made, accurate, well balanced and a lifetime warranty.

Springfields are also quite good guns and their warranty service is reportedly very good. I just happen to like the S&W's (and Colts) a bit better as a personal taste.

[BillCA]

Originally Posted by BillCA

Unlike DA/SA and some DAO guns, when you chamber a round in the 1911 it is ready to fire if you touch the trigger. But only if you have a firm hold and are depressing the grip safety Until you apply the manual thumb safety, the natural state of the 1911 is "fire". Other guns like the Beretta, non-1911 S&W's, Walthers, Sigs, etc. can be loaded & unloaded with the safety ON. The 1911 cannot. Unless you relax your hold enough for the grip safety to engage. This may be why others say they are "unsafe". It's a matter of degrees and focusing on what you're doing.

Fixed it a bit for ya!

Of course, keeping your finger OFF the trigger during periods of NOT shooting, will keep the 1911 as safe as any other pistol.

Obviously, anything mechanical can fail. Your job, is to make sure your brain does not fail

*Sigh* I shoulda known...

Army - I had actually added similar caveats and then deleted them to keep the principle straightforward and simple. No need to clutter up the message.

Besides, if one is chambering a round in a 1911, the typical method includes gripping the pistol with enough forced to depress the grip safety. Especially under combat/firing conditions.

And I'll disagree about the 2nd part. You cannot chamber a round on the 1911 with the [thumb]safety engaged. Unlike a Walther/S&W/Beretta, you can't put the thumb-actuated safety in the ON position and then chamber a round. Holding it in such a manner as to engage the grip safety while chambering a round is not only awkward, but risks dropping or fumbling the gun for many people. Let's leave advanced techniques to those more familiar with the platform.