CZ 75 BD 9mm First Impressions/Concerns

[JeremyS]

@JeremyS - Please read the whole thread before posting. I have already removed the hogue grip and put the stock grips back on. I will probably buy the stock rubber grips from czcustom later.

Not going to mess with the recoil spring right now.

Oh I read the thread. My comment was based on the fact that you purchased the Hogue grips before giving the factory ones a chance. That you now have Hogue grips acting as paper weights only further supports my comments . I've done the same thing, don't worry. The fact that you are now going to "probably buy other grips later" instead of right away, not mess with the recoil spring until you've used the gun for a while, etc, is exactly what I would have suggested and is what I meant to imply with my post. You'll know what you want/need if you shoot the gun for a while, and you'll be a lot less likely to do something that you don't end up liking.

Heck, even your pro/con opinions on the gun may change once it's actually fired. They don't sell 'em as decorations

[sfhondapilot]

where did you get your cz75bd?

i am going to get one.


thanks

I found mine at Tabor's down by the SFO airport.

[MusicMatt]

I got mine from Triple A Sporting Goods in Vallejo. When I went back to pick it up, I think they only had the CZ 75 compact and a SP-01. But their selection is awesome so if they don't already have another they will soon. Give them a call.

I'll update the thread when I get back from the range.

[dmmikhail]

MusicMatt --
I completely disagree and I'll tell you why. The gun is designed to shoot NATO ammo and CZ's test ammo of choice is Sellier and Bellot, which is EXTREMELY hot-loaded ammo (+p+ with about 510 ftlbs in a 9mm, which is as much as you'll find anywhere). Due to this, the recoil spring is very stiff. The hammer spring (mainspring) is also very stiff due to hard NATO primers. You are TOTALLY fine reducing the power of your recoil spring. I went down to a 14 lb recoil spring which is more than enough for all standard pressure ammo and is also sufficient for most +P loads with no slide battering at all whatsoever. It is more than enough spring for any off-the-shelf standard pressure load like WWB, Blazer, AE, Wolf/BrownBear, reloads, blah blah whatever. I also went with a 15 lb mainspring and it's strong enough to reliably ignite even known-to-be-hard primers like the steel-cased Russian ammo primers.

Note that racking the slide is MUCH easier with these spring weights. Yes, the mainspring makes a difference if the hammer is down, since racking the slide cocks the hammer in this case.

I highly, highly recommend these spring weights if you intend to do mostly target shooting, competition, etc, and sometimes have the gun for defensive purposes. If the main purpose of the gun is for defense and you're running only +P or +P+ through it, I'd stick with the factory springs since this is exactly what they are designed so very strong for. ...excessively strong for normal use!...

I kind of agree with you, but im still not completely convinced. it mainly has to do with what you said about cz using +p+ ammo, as I dont think any manufacturer would rate their guns for such hot ammo. The other issue I have is that if the stock springs were designed for such hot ammo, it wouldn't cycle reliably with standard ammo as there wouldnt be sufficient force to completely compress the spring and allow the spent case to eject before the spring overcomes and starts to push the slide back forward. The last thing is you mentioned reducing your recoil spring to a 14 lb, what I'm confused about is that the factory standard spring is 14 lb.

[Euphoria526]

I kind of agree with you, but im still not completely convinced. it mainly has to do with what you said about cz using +p+ ammo, as I dont think any manufacturer would rate their guns for such hot ammo. The other issue I have is that if the stock springs were designed for such hot ammo, it wouldn't cycle reliably with standard ammo as there wouldnt be sufficient force to completely compress the spring and allow the spent case to eject before the spring overcomes and starts to push the slide back forward. The last thing is you mentioned reducing your recoil spring to a 14 lb, what I'm confused about is that the factory standard spring is 14 lb.

CZ's are NATO round rates which means stick can accept the +p+ loads as is.
Owning a p01 and a 75b SA I can say that my Guns have absolutely zero problems with regular fmj rounds. Accurate as poop.
Not sure about the recoil spring.aybe he meant he was going to change it?

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-p01/

[JeremyS]

I kind of agree with you, but im still not completely convinced. it mainly has to do with what you said about cz using +p+ ammo, as I dont think any manufacturer would rate their guns for such hot ammo. The other issue I have is that if the stock springs were designed for such hot ammo, it wouldn't cycle reliably with standard ammo as there wouldnt be sufficient force to completely compress the spring and allow the spent case to eject before the spring overcomes and starts to push the slide back forward. The last thing is you mentioned reducing your recoil spring to a 14 lb, what I'm confused about is that the factory standard spring is 14 lb.

I didn't mean to say that CZ tests with +P+ ammo, although I see I pretty much did. What I meant was that the Sellier & Bellot ammo that CZ uses at the factory for all test firing (S&B is Czech) is loaded to power levels equivalent of +P or maybe +P+. It does NOT say anything about higher pressures on the packaging. However, power levels in ftlbs exceed that of, for instance, Federal HydraShok +P+ by 10 ftlbs and matches the energy of Doubletap's +P "trail defense" load. These are powerful rounds. Likewise, the NATO ammo that these guns are designed to use -- and use exclusively for many many thousands or tens of thousands of rounds -- are squarely in +P territory at 36,500 psi (maximum allowed SAAMI pressure for standard 9mm is 35,001 psi). Additionally, the NATO rounds are known for hard primers and the hammer spring is extra strong to ensure reliable ignition.

Factory standard recoil spring is not 14 lbs... at least not in my SP-01. Maybe in some 75 variants??? At any rate, most people say it is 18 lbs although it is really almost impossible to say for sure. It's not a stat CZ publishes. You can see here that CZ Custom refers to the 14 lb spring as "reduced power" http://czcustom.com/CZ-Recoil-Spring-14Lb.aspx. In fact, you can see they also call the 15 lb spring "reduced power" http://czcustom.com/CZ-Recoil-Spring-15Lb.aspx ...and some people DO have issues with ejection of light-loaded rounds with the factory recoil spring. I never had a failure but did find 115 grn reloads landing right next to me on the bench, which means they were barely making it out.

It is an obvious difference that you can feel easily by hand when racking the slide w/ a 14 lb spring vs. the OEM spring. I have switched back and forth a couple of times and it is very easy to tell which is which. 14 lbs is definitely lighter. I chose this weight as I wanted to be able to shoot occasional +P rounds without worrying about my frame, and I believe I achieved that with this weight. However, I shoot 99.9% standard pressure bulk ammo in this gun. If I shot it regularly with +P I'd probably stick with the OEM spring. If I shot only lighter target loads I'd go 12 lbs like many people do, but I shoot some reloads and random cheap stuff so I want a margin of safety.

The feeling in an all-steel gun when slide smacks frame is hard to miss, though. You can also watch how far your brass is going. Shoot factory springs with factory S&B ammo and note where they land. If your load of choice is going much farther with the lighter spring, it might be too light.


Anyway they're AWESOME guns and you absolutely DO NOT need to change a dang thing for them to shoot with the utmost reliability. That said, the benefit for me of going with lighter springs was huge. Lighter DA pull thanks to the mainspring, easier racking of slide when hammer is down thanks to mainspring, and generally much easier manipulation/racking of slide thanks to lighter recoil spring. Much more usable gun that doesn't need as much manhandling and aggression to operate haha

[dmmikhail]

I didn't mean to say that CZ tests with +P+ ammo, although I see I pretty much did. What I meant was that the Sellier & Bellot ammo that CZ uses at the factory for all test firing (S&B is Czech) is loaded to power levels equivalent of +P or maybe +P+. It does NOT say anything about higher pressures on the packaging. However, power levels in ftlbs exceed that of, for instance, Federal HydraShok +P+ by 10 ftlbs and matches the energy of Doubletap's +P "trail defense" load. These are powerful rounds. Likewise, the NATO ammo that these guns are designed to use -- and use exclusively for many many thousands or tens of thousands of rounds -- are squarely in +P territory at 36,500 psi (maximum allowed SAAMI pressure for standard 9mm is 35,001 psi). Additionally, the NATO rounds are known for hard primers and the hammer spring is extra strong to ensure reliable ignition.

Factory standard recoil spring is not 14 lbs... at least not in my SP-01. Maybe in some 75 variants??? At any rate, most people say it is 18 lbs although it is really almost impossible to say for sure. It's not a stat CZ publishes. You can see here that CZ Custom refers to the 14 lb spring as "reduced power" http://czcustom.com/CZ-Recoil-Spring-14Lb.aspx. In fact, you can see they also call the 15 lb spring "reduced power" http://czcustom.com/CZ-Recoil-Spring-15Lb.aspx ...and some people DO have issues with ejection of light-loaded rounds with the factory recoil spring. I never had a failure but did find 115 grn reloads landing right next to me on the bench, which means they were barely making it out.

It is an obvious difference that you can feel easily by hand when racking the slide w/ a 14 lb spring vs. the OEM spring. I have switched back and forth a couple of times and it is very easy to tell which is which. 14 lbs is definitely lighter. I chose this weight as I wanted to be able to shoot occasional +P rounds without worrying about my frame, and I believe I achieved that with this weight. However, I shoot 99.9% standard pressure bulk ammo in this gun. If I shot it regularly with +P I'd probably stick with the OEM spring. If I shot only lighter target loads I'd go 12 lbs like many people do, but I shoot some reloads and random cheap stuff so I want a margin of safety.

The feeling in an all-steel gun when slide smacks frame is hard to miss, though. You can also watch how far your brass is going. Shoot factory springs with factory S&B ammo and note where they land. If your load of choice is going much farther with the lighter spring, it might be too light.


Anyway they're AWESOME guns and you absolutely DO NOT need to change a dang thing for them to shoot with the utmost reliability. That said, the benefit for me of going with lighter springs was huge. Lighter DA pull thanks to the mainspring, easier racking of slide when hammer is down thanks to mainspring, and generally much easier manipulation/racking of slide thanks to lighter recoil spring. Much more usable gun that doesn't need as much manhandling and aggression to operate haha

ahh ok, the difference in model might be the reason. my 75B came standard with a 14lb spring and I got my stats from wolff springs. they listed 14lb as standard and my spare 14lb springs feel exactly the same.

I do agree with the steel on steel smack and that was the reason I recommended against reduced power springs. I've shot friends guns with reduced power springs, while it doesnt make a difference in polymer framed guns which can absorb the increased recoil, in a steel frame it speeds up wear and increases the risk of cracking.

Come to think of it, a reduced power recoil spring can be acceptable if you also use a recoil buffer to offset the increased force.

On your bottom line, I'm also gonna agree. These are some of the best finest guns out there!

[elsolo]

I personally wouldn't mess with the recoil spring unless you are reloading light, or are consistently using lighter loaded ammunition.

What are you worried might break or go wrong?
My first CZ has over 100,000 rds through it, still shoots like a champ, runs an 11# recoil spring with full power reloads.

[zfields]

What are you worried might break or go wrong?
My first CZ has over 100,000 rds through it, still shoots like a champ, runs an 11# recoil spring with full power reloads.

That's nice, I still would rather not bash the frame anymore then needed. I run mine right at minimum power factor, and the stock spring hasn't had an issue at all.

[elsolo]

There is no frame bashing to worry about.

The only part that is of any concern is the slide stop. Inspecting the broken ones, it appears they let go from the slide returning into battery; so running an extra heavy recoil spring beats up a CZ more than a soft spring, IMHO.

[JeremyS]

^^^ heard that about the slide stop multiple times. Most people carry a spare. While you could view it either way, it's a nice design to put the load/shock/wear on an easily replaceable part.

[zfields]

^^^ heard that about the slide stop multiple times. Most people carry a spare. While you could view it either way, it's a nice design to put the load/shock/wear on an easily replaceable part.

Hell, IIRC the czechmate comes with something like 6 slide stops.

[mblat]

What are you worried might break or go wrong?
My first CZ has over 100,000 rds through it, still shoots like a champ, runs an 11# recoil spring with full power reloads.

Hey... on that subject.... on what schedule you were changing springs? Recoil, ejector etc?

[elsolo]

Hey... on that subject.... on what schedule you were changing springs? Recoil, ejector etc?

When something quits working right.
When I tore it down for hardchrome several years ago, I replaced all the little action springs since it was apart.

I gets new mag springs and recoil spring once every 15,000