tips for improving SA/DA trigger squeeze?

[9mmepiphany]

I should be more specific. Even the creep with the SA pull affects my point of aim. Practice with a casing sounds good! Kinda made me think that I may be taking aim for too long and fatiguing my shoulders. In long range shooting I would often restart a pull if I had been taking too long. Maybe that's another factor in my problems.

Fatigue shouldn't be a factor in pressing off a good DA shot. It doesn't take anymore time than a good SA shot. All handgun trigger presses are the same, the only thing than differs is the distance the trigger travels before the shot breaks. As a matter of fact, learning to correctly manage a DA trigger stroke will make you a better SA shooter.

If you are interested in some instruction on learning to manage a the DA trigger on your pistol...drop me a PM. I have clients who have driven up to Sacramento and I've worked with others in the Bay Area

[BLR81]

Before shooting semi auto handguns I had experience with a Ruger SA revolver, M16 service rifles, and a Remington 700. All have had triggers that were easier to control than my semi auto handguns (previously USP 45 and currently FNX-9).

It seems that the creep is what really ruins the squeeze for me. With the other triggers the take-up was short, if any. With my semi autos I build anticipation, and often jerk the trigger, placing the shots around 7-8 o' clock. It's improved with the FNX, but I still tend to do it here and there.

I know that range time and dry firing will help me instill better habits, but is there anything else that could help consistency?

Maybe you're just being too hard on yourself. What range are your shots, 20ft or 25yds? How far off target are you 7-8 o'clock shots, 2" or 10"? If you were shooting in self defense would your shots still be in mid body?

I was hard on myself after practicing putting 10 shots from my 22 in a two inch circle at 100yds. When I got to the pistol range I couldn't hit the 2" circle from 30ft, and was beating myself up. Until I put up a silhouette target and realize I still was putting 9 of 10 inside the 8 ring and it would have taken more than 1 or 2 shots from my S&W 40 cal to get the job done with that accuracy.

[tbc]

Is it a LEM...I have a friend I'm working with on his P2000 and it can be a challenge.

The issue is that H&K DA trigger strokes are very long. You keep pressing, thinking it should be going off, but it just keeps moving back. The other thing is that many of them seem to stack to a point before a drop off to release.

The best thing you can do is press back to the top of hitch, don't stop and don't slow down, but just keep pressing. All the free slack before the pressure starts building can be taken up quickly...it isn't part of the trigger press. You aren't slapping, because you aren't slamming the trigger to the rear...the fact that it lightens and allows your finger to move faster is just part of their design

One is LEM and one is DA/SA. The LEM is exactly what you've described but I can manage the long trigger strokes. The DA from DA/SA trigger is the one I am struggling with. It is difficult to describe in words -- it's sandy, long strokes, and inconsistent trigger weight. Love the SA though

I hear ya: Don't stop and don't slow down

[9mmepiphany]

OK, now I feel for you...I know exactly what you mean by sandy and inconsistent.

It isn't you, it's the trigger, that is why my buddy converted his DA/SA to LEM.

You can have the trigger cleaned up and it would be a dream to shoot. Scott at Apex Tactical Specialties (Los Oso) does a really nice H&K trigger cleanup

[tbc]

^ thanks. I'll look it up.


Sent from my iPhone

[Striker]

What does that mean to "roll the trigger?"

The even, consistent stroke that 9mm was talking about earlier. Most people either want to rush it and jerk the trigger, do what you do and stage the trigger or just skip the DA all together. Guys who shoot DA revolvers get it because it's much like shooting a DA revolver. Your sight picture should already be set, so there's no need to stop or slow down. Speed is just going to come as you perfect it and smooth it out. So the speed is what it is. Don't try to speed up just to get to the break either because that usually causes people to jerk the trigger. I also find that grip is a huge part of it. Grip too tightly and you have a problem. Don't grip tightly enough and you have a problem.

I don't want to make it sound like it's easy, because it isn't. Pistol shooting in general is harder than long gun shooting, but you can perfect DA/SA with enough practice.

Some thoughts on my own experience with DA/SA.

Earlier this summer I shot my S&W DA/SA 9mm like poop, and set about fixing the problem.

700 rounds later, here's my conclusions.

One, it is VITAL that the shooter check the fit of the DA/SA gun to your hand!

A single action trigger allows for more flexibility in grip types-a light trigger gun doesn't require as much finger movement to shoot, nor does it take as long to break the shot.As such you have the hold the gun steady longer in DA than you do in single action, so grip becomes elevated in importance. It is important to note that your grip in DA must be just as secure as it is in Single action, and with certain pistols the position of the trigger can make or break accuracy in this regime. If you shoot a pistol which doesn't ergnomically work in Double action, you can stroke the trigger till your joints ache and your accuracy will still be poor. You'll be rolling the trigger well and proper, but the gun will be moving and shifting in your poorly-established grip causing your shots to land all over the place. Short of milling the frame of the gun, there's not terribly much you can do about this problem.

In my case, the 700 round experiment proved that I had to make some changes in my carry rotation. Nothing wrong with practice, and I could put down a 5" group at 30 feet in single and double action with the S&W, but further improvement beyond that isn't possible given how my hands hold the gun. I post this so that you don't do what I did and end up burning 1000 rounds downrange only to slightly improve and think you just suck that badly.

And this is the other thing. I think with enough practice you could probably shoot the Smith just fine; however, it's hard to spend time with a gun when you have guns that fulfill the same purpose and that you shoot better. Sometimes what you like and what you shoot well are not the same things. And if you've familiarized yourself enough with the gun to be able to run one if necessary and have a certain amount of proficiency with it, why torture yourself when you can just go back to something you shoot better, keep getting better with it and enjoy yourself more.

[steelcore]

TomDw, when I put up a small target up at 7-10 yards I can get many shots within 5" of dead center. Sometimes I have fliers, but who doesn't? I don't believe I'm being too hard on myself. I constantly hear other shooters cracking off shots far more frequently than me, and their shots end up making tighter patterns.

I'm gonna try lots of dry firing while watching tv or if I can't sleep at night. The snap cap idea sounds good - randomly loading one to watch my flinch. During live fire I always try to imagine the FEEL an empty chamber when I pull the trigger, but some times I still jerk.

[BLR81]

TomDw, when I put up a small target up at 7-10 yards I can get many shots within 5" of dead center. Sometimes I have fliers, but who doesn't? I don't believe I'm being too hard on myself. I constantly hear other shooters cracking off shots far more frequently than me, and their shots end up making tighter patterns.

I'm gonna try lots of dry firing while watching tv or if I can't sleep at night. The snap cap idea sounds good - randomly loading one to watch my flinch. During live fire I always try to imagine the FEEL an empty chamber when I pull the trigger, but some times I still jerk.

Let's face it, DA is harder than SA especially if your gun has a long trigger pull. Hickock45 recommends using a grip exerciser to build up your finger strength. Another guy that helped me with my Dry Fire Practice is SFC Keith Sanderson, you can look him up on YouTube, he's a world champ.

Sanderson says he practices 100 dry fires for every actual live fire. He suggests holding the sight picture for a extended length of time to build up your hand and arm stength and steady your sight picture. He also suggests a long follow thru after you pull the trigger, so that you learn not to relax until long after the shot is taken.

I think concentrated practice is better than practice in front of the tv. The Army Reserve video has you stand right up against a wall while you practice dry firing. I have a target with crosshairs taped to the wall, so that I can concentrate on keeping the front sight from moving to the side while I pull the trigger.

I knew DA would be a problem to start, so I began practicing in SA at first and when I was able to hold on my sight picture, fire, and maintain the same sight picture 10 times in a row, then I started practicing DA. Don't overdue it. 15-30 sec. per dry fire, followed by 30 sec rest with appox 10 reps will have you sweating and shaking if your not use to it.