1911, what's wrong?

[Rover]

Took my Springfield Mil-Spec apart for a much needed cleaning and a few new parts, and now I've got issues.

I first replaced the trigger, plunger tube, hammer, and beavertail, but had this issue and started putting the stock parts back in trying to figure it out. It didn't help. In the video it's got the new hammer and beavertail, and stock trigger. If I point it to the ground the hammer seems to stay in place after it's "fired", but any other position and it wants to fall back to half cock. What did I do wrong?

Nothing was wrong with the the gun, fired 250 rounds the day I took it apart, so I assume it's assembly issues, but can't find anything via google. Thanks ahead of time for the help.

[opie4386]

will the hammer have any play? I remember whe I did my first full strip I spent 2 hrs with a similar proble and it was a misplaced disconector, make sure when you attach the disconnecter that it pops the tip out of the frame a bit before pinning the sear on, its real tricky.

[redcliff]

Disassemble and remove the grip safety and reassemble without it, which allows you to see if the sear, disconnector and sear spring is properly positioned and whats going on with the hammer strut. Does your hammer have tension in the full decocked position after pulling the trigger? If not either your ILS mainspring housing isn't assembled properly (did you have it apart?) or your hammer strut is too short for your ILS MSH due to your new hammer's strut pin location. If you do have tension with the grip safety removed it could be your new grip safety is interfering with hammer strut travel. You can reinstall your old hammer/strut assembly and grip safety to see if it works properly then.

Also, on your final hammer drop in your video at around 17-18 seconds it appears the hammer falls directly to half-cock which would indicate insufficient trigger over-travel to me.

I'm mildly curious as to why you replaced your plunger tube, was the old one loose? Most people don't have the tools to properly replace those and Springfield would of done it under the lifetime warranty.

Disclaimer: I am not a gunsmith. Fire control components can cause lethal results if not assembled and fitted properly and professional gunsmith fitting is strongly recommended. Function tests for safety should be done after working on your firearm.

[dadoody]

Take it completely apart again and put it back together. Sounds like an issue with the positioning of the sear.

Read this article: http://how-i-did-it.org/detail-1911/reassembly.html

[Snoopy47]

[Rover]

Does your hammer have tension in the full decocked position after pulling the trigger? If not either your ILS mainspring housing isn't assembled properly (did you have it apart?) or your hammer strut is too short for your ILS MSH due to your new hammer's strut pin location.

Also, on your final hammer drop in your video at around 17-18 seconds it appears the hammer falls directly to half-cock which would indicate insufficient trigger over-travel to me.

I'm mildly curious as to why you replaced your plunger tube, was the old one loose? Most people don't have the tools to properly replace those and Springfield would of done it under the lifetime warranty.

I did have the ILS apart, as it was in dire need of a cleaning. Pretty certain it's put back together correctly, though that was my first thought as well. The tapered pin is at the bottom so as to act as a detent on the pin that holds the Mainspring housing in place, the cup shaped part is in with the "cup" up and the spring is between them. Everything moves freely when pushed with a punch.

The hammer has no tension at all until you get just past half-cock.

How would I tell if I have insufficient trigger over travel? And how would I have less overtravel now than I did 3 days ago when I took it apart, using the same trigger and components?

Replaced the plunger tube because it was loose and wallowed out. Probably should have sent it to Springfield for that, but I also wanted to re-grain the frame, and change a few parts while I was at it. Also the silver finish on the stock Springfield tube looks like crap, now I have a soda-blasted stainless one that matches the gun. I also figured this would be the faster route, and just made the staking tool myself.

Again, the problem is the same with all the stock parts, all the new parts, or a combination of the two. Leads me to believe it's an installation issue with one of the original parts I didn't replace.

[SgtMerc]

I could be sorely mistaken, but since the hammer has no tension have you checked the strut that goes into the mainspring housing? It sounds like it migh be pinned in front of the msh or something, or not properly engaging the mainspring.

[Rover]

The hammer has tension past half-cock and strikes seemingly fine (have not fired it, so who really knows), could the plunger be binding up in the MSH maybe?

[littlejake]

I did have the ILS apart, as it was in dire need of a cleaning. Pretty certain it's put back together correctly, though that was my first thought as well. The tapered pin is at the bottom so as to act as a detent on the pin that holds the Mainspring housing in place, the cup shaped part is in with the "cup" up and the spring is between them. Everything moves freely when pushed with a punch.

The hammer has no tension at all until you get just past half-cock.

How would I tell if I have insufficient trigger over travel? And how would I have less overtravel now than I did 3 days ago when I took it apart, using the same trigger and components?

Replaced the plunger tube because it was loose and wallowed out. Probably should have sent it to Springfield for that, but I also wanted to re-grain the frame, and change a few parts while I was at it. Also the silver finish on the stock Springfield tube looks like crap, now I have a soda-blasted stainless one that matches the gun. I also figured this would be the faster route, and just made the staking tool myself.

Again, the problem is the same with all the stock parts, all the new parts, or a combination of the two. Leads me to believe it's an installation issue with one of the original parts I didn't replace.

The bold seems like the clue. That strongly suggests hammer/strut/mainspring system. If is doesn't have spring tension until 1/2 cock with 100% factory parts, then you have reassembled the MSH components incorrectly. SA uses a different plunger in the MSH to accommodate the ILS. I believe your problem lies there, not in the sear, trigger, disconnect, flat spring.

You didn't change the hammer strut or MSH plunger? You didn't use a pin in the MSH to capture the plunger -- the SA ILS MSH doesn't work with a plunger retention pin as used on most other 1911s.

edit: another thought: It's possible to push the MS plunger too deep into the MSH and lock it in with the a twist of the ILS lock. That would set it too deep.

[redhemi]

Watching the video it looks like the hammer has no power and is loose. To me it looks like your mainspring is not fully extending like it should. Did you change any of the parts in the MSH?

[Rover]

You didn't change the hammer strut or MSH plunger? You didn't use a pin in the MSH to capture the plunger -- the SA ILS MSH doesn't work with a plunger retention pin as used on most other 1911s.

We may have a winner. I did pin the MSH plunger, but had to buy a new pin to do it. I thought I lost the pin, but perhaps I simply never had it. I honestly can't remember one way or another if it was there when I tore the gun down. I take apart so many small parts between guns, dirtbikes and stuff at work, it all blurs together at a certain point. I'll give it a shot when I get home from work. Thanks.

If SA doesn't use the pin, why do they machine the MSH to accept it?

[cindynles]

We may have a winner. I did pin the MSH plunger, but had to buy a new pin to do it. I thought I lost the pin, but perhaps I simply never had it. I honestly can't remember one way or another if it was there when I tore the gun down. I take apart so many small parts between guns, dirtbikes and stuff at work, it all blurs together at a certain point. I'll give it a shot when I get home from work. Thanks.

If SA doesn't use the pin, why do they machine the MSH to accept it?

That is most likley your problem. With the SA ILS you use a pin to hold the cap down during disassemly. The pin has to be removed for the ILS mainspring housing to work. The pin is limiting the mainspring travel.

Read page 8 of the owners manual:

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/springfield_1911.pdf

[redcliff]

Does your hammer have tension in the full decocked position after pulling the trigger? If not either your ILS mainspring housing isn't assembled properly (did you have it apart?)

As noted above, the hole in the ILS msh is for the disassembly pin which is shown in this picture:

[redcliff]

How would I tell if I have insufficient trigger over travel? And how would I have less overtravel now than I did 3 days ago when I took it apart, using the same trigger and components?

In your video you have the new hammer installed; overtravel adjustment is to allow the sear to miss the half cock notch on the hammer when the trigger is pulled. New hammer= potential need for overtravel adjustment and also when replacing trigger and/or sear.

[littlejake]

If you pinned it, that's the problem. As for me, I dislike SA's ILS MSH. I pulled the one in my SA 1911 Loaded model and replaced it with a Wilson Combat MSH -- got the internals from Brownells -- they have a MSH rebuild kit with all the pins and plungers. I also got several mainsprings. 23# is considered a standard 1911 MS, I got a 19# and a 23# -- I liked the 19# the best.