Beretta 92 Shooting Help

[Brad H]

I'm hoping some of the Beretta experts here can help me figure this out.

Back in the '90s, when the Beretta 92 and Glock 17 were the two big service pistols, I bought a Glock 17. I've shot it for years and have always shot it well. I've always wanted a Beretta 92, so I finally picked one up.

The problem is that I'm struggling to shoot the Beretta accurately. Using the same range, same ammunition, same stance, same grip, and the same sight picture, my groups with the Beretta are noticeably worse than with my Glock 17. The Beretta has about 1000 rounds through it and at about 500 I added a spring kit because I thought I was having an issue with the heavy trigger pull.

I have several double action revolvers and shoot them well. I an struggling to figure out what I am doing wrong with this gun.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing. Is there something about the Beretta 92's trigger, grip angle, sights, or ergonomics that typically requires a different technique? Has anyone else experienced this transition from a Glock to a Beretta and eventually figured out what needed to change?

I'd appreciate any tips or things to look for before I start blaming the pistol. Thanks in advance.

Here are two targets shot at the same range 15 feet, 25 rounds, same day, same ammunition.



Pistol.jpg

[G-forceJunkie]

Are you shooting the beretta single action, double action or both? Assuming both guns are the same mechanical accuracy wise, the problem has to be with your grip, trigger pull or follow through. For kicks, do both tests next time but shoot with your off hand. Shoot the Beretta only in single action. See if the results are the same...I doubt they will be. Try a few strings, with both guns, with a dummy round or two mixed in the mag, see if your flinching. I've seen people with so much experience shooting a particular gun, with a flinch, that they have learned to shoot well with the flinch. But its timing on a particular gun, shoot anything else and the timing is all wrong and accuracy goes to hell. If you have a flinch, you need to correct that, not get good a shooting with a flinch.

[Scotty]

At 15 feet, you are yanking the trigger way too hard. Stop treating the trigger like an on and off switch.

Try this to understand what you are doing. Take your gun, make sure it's is empty. Didn't even bother holding it up into your shooting stance. Just hold it in front of you so you can see the entire gun. Now I want you to mash the trigger as hard as you can. A quick hard pull of the trigger. Do you see the gun dip down and left?

So this is you using more force than necessary and treating it like an on and off switch. You are forcing the gun to fire at the instance you think the sights are lined up. In the process of doing this, you push way too hard on the trigger.

What you want to do is when your finger touches the trigger, begin to apply an even increasing pressure. Do not stage the trigger or hold it at the wall. Apply an increasing pressure from the moment your finger touches the trigger until the gun goes off. Practice going slow like a 5 count from start to finish. As you get better, go faster.

With the Beretta, try shooting every shot in double action, decocking after every shot. The long travel makes it easier to learn how to apply an even, increasing pressure.

[turbolarry]

Has anyone else experienced this transition from a Glock to a Beretta and eventually figured out what needed to change?

I did. I struggled and it was way more difficult than I thought it would be. Dry fire, dry fire, then practice dry firing once a week, and at least 50 rounds a month at the range. That's what helped me. The Beretta target just looks like there's a little recoil anticipation. Dry fire a lot to break those Glock habits.

[jarhead714]

Try some thinner grips. The 92 is huge. I can barely reach the trigger in double action.🤣

[Brad H]

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it.

To answer a few of the questions and add a little more information.

Both guns were shot with three magazines, 10 rounds, 10 rounds, then 5 rounds. The Beretta was shot Double Action after de-cocked on the first round of each magazine. Then Single Action for the remainder.

The course of fire was very slow with a focus on a slow and steady pull of the trigger each time while watching the front sight on the target. Based on the targets my initial thought was flinching and pushing the gun, but the sight picture looked good during the break. I am not saying that I am not flinching, as I have a said I don’t know what is happening. But from what I could see they looked clean. I can usually see it when I flinch, or jerk things at the break.

I don’t have this problem with my revolvers or other pistols, just this Beretta.

I have shot the Beretta Double Action for all shots in the past and I tend to shoot it better, but still not great.

[Brad H]

I went down to the range and tried some of the suggestions, The top target is 10 rounds double action (right hand, normal shooting hand) each shot. I am still to the left, but no low.

The bottom is 25 rounds, single action, in my left (non dominant) hand. Still low and to the left, but much better than in my right hand.

I am not sure what to make of this.

Pistol1.jpg

[G-forceJunkie]

If the gun is shooting left with both hands...adjust the sites. The gun shooting low appears to be all you as the DA group is not low. Have other people shoot it. Shoot off a rest. You need to be looking at two things, center of your groups and the size of your groups. Size of the groups, reguardless of where they land on the target, is all you. That is basic marksmenship of which trigger control and follow throu are the most important. I'm going to assume you understand and can do sight picture/ site alignment as your group with the Glock is fine. I would suggest alot of dry fire practice of the fundimentals, use dummy rounds in your mags during range sessions, and for the Beretta drift your rear sight to the right a bit to bring your groups to the right. The fact they are to the left even when shooting left handed implies it not your trigger press pulling it low and left.

[Elgatodeacero]

OP would probably benefit from the excellent Beretta 92 .22 long rifle conversion kit. It is good quality and allows inexpensive, low recoil practice using your standard 92 frame.

[Scotty]

2 inches off at 15 feet is about half the width of the front sight that you need to correct for. That's quite a bit. I would shoot off the bench with the front of the frame fully supported by sandbags or a rest to verify if it is you or the gun.

[aca72]

Watch and learn from the Master...

Fear Not the Double Action Shot. Part I
Fear Not the Double Action Shot Part 2
Fear Not the Double Action Shot Part 3

[Gawernator]

Try putting thinner grips on and maybe a shorter reach trigger or something... probably you're jerking the trigger because of the bigger grip and compensating for that

[FreshTapCoke]

I'd say do a lot of dry fire. Your G17 target looks like you have extensive experience with it. The difference in how the trigger works must be messing with your muscle memory and causing you to move off target. Tech your finger the new trigger.

[IVC]

I am not sure what to make of this.

Both your initial set of targets and your improved shooting when using weak hand only or DA only are extremely typical and are a sure sign of a very specific trigger control problem. Let me break it down.

The key to operating a trigger is that it is a process that takes a finite amount of time. You don't do "aim, fire," you do "press/pull the trigger WHILE keeping sights on target."

Note that getting sights on target and acquiring an acceptable sight picture is only the beginning of the trigger pull (and with some DA triggers at a higher level you start the pull even before you have acceptable sight picture). After you start operating the trigger, you must keep sights aligned all the way until you call the shot (gun fires and you see the sights move in recoil).

Your initial target with low left is because you see the sights aligned and say to yourself "NOW," at which time you ignore your sights and run the trigger, pulling your shot. The proverbial "aim, fire." What you have to do instead is separate aiming from trigger pull and watch the sights as you press the trigger. A good practice is to play a game of "add pressure to the trigger WITHOUT firing," where when the sights are aligned you just add weight to the trigger and keep it there. This forces you to keep watching the sights because you're not firing and masking the problem. Then, add some more pressure without firing, and then some more, until it finally fires WHILE you're sure it's on target.

Yes, it's sort of surprise break concept, but surprise doesn't matter at all. What matters is that you ensure sights are on target not when you begin the trigger pull, but when the gun fires.

Your second target is much better because you're not using "aim, NOW, fire" - when you're shooting in non standard (for you) setup. You're forced to keep sights on target until the gun fires simply because you don't have the mechanics (yet) of pulling the trigger quickly in either DA mode or with weak hand. The unfamiliar setup forces you to keep aiming while you pull the trigger and you don't pull the gun off the target.

[jarhead714]

The 92 with thinner grips and is a wholly different pistol. Try it.