Sig P320 discharge with Zip Tie

[Dirk Tungsten]

.
You are helping the gun fire by already pulling the trigger. You can make ALL guns (with no manual safety) vulnerable this way.

Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?

IDK man I just tried to make both my M&P shield and G17 discharge the same was as the guy from the Wyoming Gun Project did, and I got Nada. No amount of slide manipulation would make the striker drop. I still suspect there's either a design flaw or issue with tolerance stacking with the 320.

[19K]

IDK man I just tried to make both my M&P shield and G17 discharge the same was as the guy from the Wyoming Gun Project did, and I got Nada. No amount of slide manipulation would make the striker drop. I still suspect there's either a design flaw or issue with tolerance stacking with the 320.

even if you get the striker to drop, is there enough force to set off a primer? If there isn’t enough force, it’s not an issue because it means the gun will not fire. At worst case scenario you have a dead trigger. Worst cast scenario for the P320 is a hole in your leg.

[bohoki]

Do all Sig striker fire pistols operate in the exact same fashion just scaled up or down for caliber ??

there is no scaling all sig p320s are "identical" its the little inner frame the slide and barrel change

they have as much slop out of the box as a 1911 made in 1911 with 100,000 rounds fired -(stolen from anther youtube vid)

it also has to do with the striker hook hanging down from the slide like a tailhook on an f14 slide its length compounded by slide wiggle i think can cause it to creep off the sear shelf

[AirCav]

there is no scaling all sig p320s are "identical" its the little inner frame the slide and barrel change

they have as much slop out of the box as a 1911 made in 1911 with 100,000 rounds fired -(stolen from anther youtube vid)

it also has to do with the striker hook hanging down from the slide like a tailhook on an f14 slide its length compounded by slide wiggle i think can cause it to creep off the sear shelf

NO.!. I didn't ask solely about P320's ... Of course they would be the same within tolerances and engineering, generational changes, ... I asked basically if all Sig striker fire pistols share the same architecture scaled for caliber, .... As in a X'ten pistol for example ..

[19K]

NO.!. I didn't ask solely about P320's ... Of course they would be the same within tolerances and engineering, generational changes, ... I asked basically if all Sig striker fire pistols share the same architecture scaled for caliber, .... As in a X'ten pistol for example ..

They aren’t. The FCU is unique to the P320

[Snoopy47]

Can you make it discharge without manipulating the trigger at all?

Yea.......... can't blame SIG at all if folks are tweaking around with the trigger. Granted, let's say 1 out of 1000 P320s will fail without prepping the trigger like we see with Cop body cams, but we are not buying 1,000 P320s in order to find that ONE SIG that will fail in the youtuber's hands.

However, if you are a LEO or Federal department they are way more likely to stumble upon one.

Then there's all those P320's in the hands of civilians that are merely range toys and never get carried around in a duty setting, and they are probably used much safer in a static range environment. So they may NEVER know they have a defective P320.

Videos need to be made WITHOUT screwing around with the trigger.

[19K]

Yea.......... can't blame SIG at all if folks are tweaking around with the trigger. Granted, let's say 1 out of 1000 P320s will fail without prepping the trigger like we see with Cop body cams, but we are not buying 1,000 P320s in order to find that ONE SIG that will fail in the youtuber's hands.

However, if you are a LEO or Federal department they are way more likely to stumble upon one.

Then there's all those P320's in the hands of civilians that are merely range toys and never get carried around in a duty setting, and they are probably used much safer in a static range environment. So they may NEVER know they have a defective P320.

Videos need to be made WITHOUT screwing around with the trigger.

it’s a start with what is currently being made. I have access to 4 of them, I will see what can be done.

[Snoopy47]

Is there no firing pin safety block in the slide?

[19K]

Is there no firing pin safety block in the slide?

There is but I have a theory on why this may be happening, especially to cops, people at the range/courses, and others who carry them.

the triggers are being partially pressed and for whatever reason pressure is taken off the trigger (suspect surrenders, cease fire is called). The gun being used/dirty/out of spec) the internal safeties are sticking, the slide is moved while in the holster and striker slips out.

[Snoopy47]

There is but I have a theory on why this may be happening, especially to cops, people at the range/courses, and others who carry them.

the triggers are being partially pressed and for whatever reason pressure is taken off the trigger (suspect surrenders, cease fire is called). The gun being used/dirty/out of spec) the internal safeties are sticking, the slide is moved while in the holster and striker slips out.

Totally hear you................. I get it........................

Problem is................... this firing pin block is a very common design. SIG to my knowledge is the only product that is failing despite this. I'm sure there has been such instances, but they are not making the rounds SIG is making, and it's not singular to a specific make and model.

I get it................ my guns are perfectly clean when I carry them. I don't let them go more than a few hundred rounds without cleaning them. So a problem of stacking tolerances FAILING me should be eliminated.

HOWEVER.................. shouldn't the design and the quality control of manufacturing ensure these safety elements DO NOT FAIL until WELL PAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the reasonable period of time for first level user maintenance.

******
Otherwise, is SIG going to put out maintenance instructions:
Must clean after every 10 rounds
Must replaced all internal moving parts after every 100 rounds

[smittty]

They aren’t. The FCU is unique to the P320

And it's striker safety or firing pin block whatever you call it on this gun, is a flat piece of metal with a bend at the end, not a thick rod like in the glock or even in the p365.

That safety thingy moves up and down either blocking the striker or letting the striker move forward. Down in the fire control group there is a lever that pushes up on that piece to let the striker do its thing - when the trigger is pulled.

We've now seen videos where guys push the sear down without pulling the trigger, and pushing down on the sear also causes the safety lever to lift - which releases the striker safety - wiggle the slide and the gun fires - without the trigger being fully pulled.

So many of these guns to have fired inside their holsters without the triggers being pulled, they must all have the same combination of qc issues along with the flaw in the sear & safety lever relationship. Manufacturing flaw, design flaw, call it whatever - its a flaw.

I examined my P365 and it does not have the same safety lever / striker safety design. If it did I'd get rid of it!

I don't want to be around a loaded P320 - they're a ticking bullet bomb!

[walmart_ar15]

Wondering if someone can perform these checks:
when moving the slide rearward 1/4 to 1/2” does the trigger move?
if u put a clamp on the plastic frame around the trigger would the trigger get stuck or hard to move?

here is the thought process if above are true. Other has shown that by moving the trigger just by ~ 1mm will defeat the striker block and put striker on edge. Thus, by inserting the gun into a holster that uses tension to hold may slightly move the slide back some. If at same time trigger moved back due the slide, the holster tension on the frame may bind the trigger in place. Now we just created a situation that mimic the 1mm trigger movement. Now any pressure exerted on the holster to the top of slide will set it off.

To simulate it outside a holster will need a clamp to provide the clamping pressure from the holster. Move slide slightly back, clamp the frame by the trigger and tap the top of the slide.

[sonofeugene]

Someone should pinch the slide first, like if it was in a holster, and then see how much trigger movement will cause the gun to fire. Sort of the opposite of what has, so far, been tried.

[bohoki]

there is a couple things that are rolling around in my head right now

#1 have any officers pulled their gun and discovered dead trigger because the striker came off the shelf but didnt go off due to the striker safety most officers put a round in the chamber at beginning of shift then shuck it out at the end of shift so it would be hard to actually get data about this unless we see some bodycams where they have to work the slide because it didnt go off

#2 due to the 320 being a bodge of the 250 the trigger when actuated pulls a bar forward vs glock where they push a bar back so this design required a fully cocked striker on the other side of the gun there is a bar that goes from the takedown lever to the sear which when rotated pushes the sear down i wonder if there is some kind of interaction that could be bumping or jamming it (it should be impossible to move unless the slide is back to the takedown notch)but it is something to think about

[19K]

Totally hear you................. I get it........................

Problem is................... this firing pin block is a very common design. SIG to my knowledge is the only product that is failing despite this. I'm sure there has been such instances, but they are not making the rounds SIG is making, and it's not singular to a specific make and model.

I get it................ my guns are perfectly clean when I carry them. I don't let them go more than a few hundred rounds without cleaning them. So a problem of stacking tolerances FAILING me should be eliminated.

HOWEVER.................. shouldn't the design and the quality control of manufacturing ensure these safety elements DO NOT FAIL until WELL PAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the reasonable period of time for first level user maintenance.

******
Otherwise, is SIG going to put out maintenance instructions:
Must clean after every 10 rounds
Must replaced all internal moving parts after every 100 rounds

i 100% agree with you. This shouldn’t be happening at all.