Buy a sig p320?

[smittty]

Yeah, I know, bad time to think about it, but I have a friend who is selling a sig p320-m18 (california version) for a very good price. He's not afraid of it, because he's keeping his m17, but needs the money.

Very bad press about them right now. On the other hand, millions are sold, and this stupid state couldn't find a reason to keep it off the roster. In everyone's opinion, is it a good pistol, or should I run away?

Thank you.

Nope, buy a P2000 instead before they're gone.
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[oddball]

Just watched that, pretty bad. Sig should recall and destroy every P320 if they want to avoid destroying their reputation as a manufacturer.

Sig Sauer really screwed the pooch, specifically CEO Ron Cohen. If they got ahead of this earlier, they could have prevented this clusterf*ck. Many people may not realize, but before becoming CEO at Sig, Cohen headed Kimber during the years of horrible QC with their handguns, especially their 1911s; many 1911 armorers wouldn't touch a Kimber back in the day. And he is doing the same with Sig, using subpar M.I.M. internal parts, terrible QC and customer support. He bottom barreled the 320 for military contracts, selling them at cost or even below to the govt. There are millions of 320s and Cohen dug himself a deep hole. I feel bad for great guys like Bruce Gray, who are sticking by Sig because they really have no choice since their companies have been built on Sig, there is no question the Sig Sauer brand has taken a severe beating.

Nevermind the malfunctions of the 320, the attitude and response of Sig is the amazing part of this story. Really too bad.

[Devilock04]

Sig is now trying to throw in free stuff to entice people to still buy the P320.

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[acaligunner]

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How do people put that on their Huevos ?! 🤔

[Snoopy47]

Thanks calib. So the pistols being discussed are from earlier production and were not sent back then? Kinda odd in case of the airman as I'm sure an armorer in the Air Force would be aware of it.

Yes, I presume all recall issues with military owned pistols will be FORCED to comply with manufacture fixes.

[Snoopy47]

So a gun club near me has Banned the P320.

The USAF, and ICE, and other agencies have banned it pending investigations.

A training vendor I've used in the past has banned it (will make exceptions for CCW qual's, but only load on the line at the low ready).

This is all happening right here, right now.

I forwarded a bunch of material (agency memos and studies) to my gun club board to consider banning it (or at the very least limit it's use to static shooting no holster work only). I DO NOT want to be the RANGE MASTER on duty when an issue happens.

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There is all sorts of bad ju-ju surrounding the P320.

Is it justified????? as an internet gun forum guru my opinion carries no weight. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is my impression OTHER manufactures have been more successful in putting such issues to bed and dumping the responsibility on the end user.

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I really don't want to deal with a crap gun that can go off when unintended. You just DO NOT KNOW when you might get sloppy with the 4 rules, and then to have a firearm that mechanically can betray you when you are most vulnerable.

As a range master I've sent folks home with jammed up guns they couldn't clear. We do our best to make it safe, but in some cases we just don't know the status of it because it's jammed up so bad and the user doesn't know if it fired the round or not. Not going to bang on it at the range, and I have the owner get the gun off the line.

If it was my gun I wouldn't want it bouncing around my trunk and going off and put a hole in my car and lord knows what/who else

Then that's another issue...............

My carry guns stay loaded and condition 1. I remove the holster from my belt, and put the gun/holster in condition 1 into my safe at home when not carrying. The P320 now brings into it so many risks for that exact SOP.

I already have a crap 22 rifle that is a safety nightmare. Once loaded a LIVE ROUND cannot be UNLOADED. It absolutely has to be fired. If the bolt is opened on a cocked status it will drop firing pin, and it can't be uncocked. It's a POS from the 1940's and I'm gonna surrender it for a gun turn in buy back deal when one comes my way.

I don't need that for either a range toy or a CCW.

[metalman4051]

I wouldn’t buy it, not after the airman this week. Why do it when there are so many other great guns available? Sig is up a creek…

[kenl]

I always thought sig had a great reputation, until this. Big military rollouts always seem to have issues, like the slide cracking on the early Berettas, but they handled the problem correctly. Sig is compounding the problem with their attitude.

As I said earlier, I decided not to get it. Bot my wife and I don't want a questionable firearm in the home.

But I did scratch the itch for a new handgun by picking up a used Springfield XDM Elite CA 9mm for a great price. Yeah, it's not an HK, Walther, or Stacato, and it has the CA bs, but it also has a great trigger and is optics ready. Plus I know and really like Springfield's HS products.

[rsrocket1]

I always thought sig had a great reputation, until this. Big military rollouts always seem to have issues, like the slide cracking on the early Berettas, but they handled the problem correctly. Sig is compounding the problem with their attitude.

As I said earlier, I decided not to get it. Bot my wife and I don't want a questionable firearm in the home.

Sig DID have a great reputation, but SigSauer USA is not the same Sig as the old European Sig. There is virtually nothing in common with the two companies. I sadly found this out on this video which does not address the P320 problem but more the atmosphere surrounding the overall problem with the New Hampshire company. It's a 47 minute diatribe but there seem to be enough truths to make you think.

I think he implies Cohen is one of those "profit at any cost" guys.

I have a P320 m17 and one in 40 S&W which I love. I use them exclusively as range guns and only have a round in the chamber while shooting and I shoot until my magazine is empty. I am afraid ranges will ban these things and if Sig declares bankruptcy, there will no longer be parts or service for them. I am not worried of UD's and I will not let inexperienced shooters use them until this thing is resolved. Sad to think this gun was produced with minimal quality testing (none for commercial sales) and no test firing for retail units. The end user was the QC department.

[DJD100]

To sum it up.............. I don't own a 320. I do own a 365, and I'm starting to think about replacing it even before I bother getting it on my CCW.

I'm a gun club range master, competitive shooter classified with USPSA and GSSF Master shooter, and NRA Life Member.

Maybe the recent issues will conclude user error. I have until then to decide about my 365.

The Sig P365 is a totally different design that utilizes the tried and true Glock style striker safety, unlike the P320 which has it's own unique striker safety which has been failing.

It takes 3 failures for an un-commanded discharge with the P320, the primary sear notch and the secondary sear notch plus the striker safety, and that includes manual safety models as the P320's manual safety works on the trigger/trigger bar rather than on the sear as in most others including the P365.

The P365 is not a dangerous design like it appears the P320 is due to parts tolerance stacking and materials.

[sigfan91]

Sig DID have a great reputation, but SigSauer USA is not the same Sig as the old European Sig. There is virtually nothing in common with the two companies. I sadly found this out on this video which does not address the P320 problem but more the atmosphere surrounding the overall problem with the New Hampshire company. It's a 47 minute diatribe but there seem to be enough truths to make you think.

I think he implies Cohen is one of those "profit at any cost" guys.

I have a P320 m17 and one in 40 S&W which I love. I use them exclusively as range guns and only have a round in the chamber while shooting and I shoot until my magazine is empty. I am afraid ranges will ban these things and if Sig declares bankruptcy, there will no longer be parts or service for them. I am not worried of UD's and I will not let inexperienced shooters use them until this thing is resolved. Sad to think this gun was produced with minimal quality testing (none for commercial sales) and no test firing for retail units. The end user was the QC department.

Didn't Ron Cohen screw up Kimber?

[rsrocket1]

Didn't Ron Cohen screw up Kimber?

He did. Their reputation as a high end gun maker took a massive hit in exchange for good profitability. As you saw in the video, many gunsmiths refused to work on newer Kimbers due to the MIM quality issues. Nowadays MIM can be of excellent quality if produced properly but early molded parts had growing difficulties.

[sigfan91]

He did. Their reputation as a high end gun maker took a massive hit in exchange for good profitability. As you saw in the video, many gunsmiths refused to work on newer Kimbers due to the MIM quality issues. Nowadays MIM can be of excellent quality if produced properly but early molded parts had growing difficulties.

He's doing the same thing to Sig USA. The marketing department is coming out with infinite number of colors and variants and logos and patterns instead of focusing on a few models and as reliable as possible.

[The Gleam]

Sig DID have a great reputation, but SigSauer USA is not the same Sig as the old European Sig. There is virtually nothing in common with the two companies. I sadly found this out on this video which does not address the P320 problem but more the atmosphere surrounding the overall problem with the New Hampshire company. It's a 47 minute diatribe but there seem to be enough truths to make you think.

I think he implies Cohen is one of those "profit at any cost" guys.

Watched that whole video - excellent assessment of SIG USA and by a fellow industry insider that has the history and credentials to support his well founded opinion. He described Cohen perfectly and gave documented reasons as to why. I also think his reason as to why that these unintended discharges are happening is likely spot on accurate as a contributing factor.

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