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My dad won one at a raffle... probably DSA back around 1976. He never used it and didn't trust it. He carried a Colt Trooper. I've had it since around 1980 and put Pachmayr wrap around grips on it to better fit my large hands. They must have had different size magazines earlier because mine are 13 capacity. Pretty reliable. Never had a misfire with it, but I prefer my USP .45 Expert... just more fun to shoot. The 59 is my only 9mm. The wife is interested in Cowboy action shooting, so next acquisitions will probably be .357 Ruger Vaquero, 1892 Winchester and not yet decided on the shotgun.
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It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.
― Ten Bears -
Most early 59 mags were 14 round. About halfway through 459 production, they switched to 15 rounds, by using the 469 followers, which had shorter front legs on the follower.
The biggest fail of the S&W 9mms in that shooting was the early Winchester Silvertip ammo they issued. IIRC, It had an aluminum jacket and had problems with interaction with powder, It totally failed to expand in real world situations. Back then, they shot 12" blocks of modeling clay, and did not use any material to simulate clothing. The shootout was partially responsible for the development of the FBI gelatin test protocol, which simulated real life better.
I was a rangemaster at a PD in the Seattle area when it happen, We issued the same ammo, but pulled it after the shoot out results came in. Winchester then when to version two if the Silverip with the improved shiny, non aluminum, silver jacket. Version three (the current) has improved pre-fail cuts in the jacket, and performs really well, on a par with Gold dot. Their current .38 Special Silvertip is excellent, even when shot from a 2" revolver.
One nice thing about the Federal 9BPLE +P+ 115 grain, is that the bullet contour mimics ball ammo, and it will feed in anything that will feed FMJ. Federal did an excellent job in bullet design, and it tends to break up and create secondary wound channels.. I meets the FB! 12" to 18" penetration, and generally has 100% reliability in expansion, even when fired through heavy clothing. Prior to Federal's HST and Speer Gold Dot, it was arguably one of the best 9mm rounds out there, and they still produce it, 40+ years later.Last edited by imarangemaster; 07-29-2025, 11:28 AM.Comment
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Dr. Goldstein showed us the way. We dropped the ball. Pick up the ball.Comment
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i bought a 910 at walmart in 1994 for $310 it was my first wondernine i though it was great and so easy to get quality magazines cheap
at the start it had some issues (weird burrs in the chamber and single action trigger pull was about 15 pounds {yes so bad i would decock it every shot becuase the da trigger pull was only about 12])but i was used to fixing almost every gun i ever bough (till i bought a glock 17 in 1998 i think it was the only gun that worked perfect out of the box)
i did find the glock more accurate but the smith and wesson is still ok it has this weird ball shape on the barrel i think they thought helps lock up but it seems to actually make sure your "pattern" is even in all directions
any other old geezers remember the late 80s early 90s there werent that many wondernines
it was like
the smith and wesson 9s
ruger p89 (beefy boi)
beretta 92 (armys choice)
cz75 (somehow it weighs even more than a ruger)
glock 17/19 plastic fantastic
sig 226/228 $800 are you out of your mind
hi power 50 year old design good enough for axle foley though
and that was about it
now there are like 100sLast edited by bohoki; 07-30-2025, 7:24 PM.Comment
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Just for the sake of historical accuracy.... what I said is still absolutely fact and true.
I did not say 'immediately' after, but it was the Glock in .40-S&W that they eventually settled on as the final selection after futzing around and experimenting with other gimmicks.
4/11/1986 was the day they realized they needed a larger caliber cartridge and higher capacity handguns, and a new handgun. Accurate. That was not 9mm, and the Glock they eventually opted for was .40-S&W and capacity at 15 rounds for the 22, 13 round for the 23.
Getting away from 5 and 6 shot revolvers was the primary conclusion, which is why the immediate 'filler' for capacity was the the 226 AND 228s.
But their goal was BOTH a larger round AND higher capacity, where they eventually switched to the 'shorter' downloaded version of a 10mm they experimented with, and began issuing .40-S&W pistols in May 1997. That was the Glock 22 and 23. The FBI officially adopted the Glock .40-S&W pistol for general agent use, first issued to New Agent Class 98-1 in October of 1997. They stuck with the .40-S&W until shrinking back to 9mm in 2015.
Studied more than any other FBI event, they realized 9mm wasn't powerful enough to take down Michael Platt immediately after being shot right at the start of the shoot-out for what should have been a fatal blow. They opined a more powerful round would have dropped him sooner and he would not have gone on to kill or wound 6 other agents. But they also realized they needed greater capacity.
While a wish for 'better stopping power' came out of the Miami shootout, the immediate observation was they lacked capacity. Because of the FBI agents that day, only 3 of them carried the 15-round Smith & Wesson 459. All other agents that day carried 5 and 6 cylinder revolvers.
Revolvers also posed a functional concern. After agent Gordon McNeill took a round to his right hand, loose flesh jammed the cylinder of his revolver making it impossible to reload. Here he was with a gun that was harder to load than one with a magazine. Another agent was wounded while fumbling to load his Chief Special.
But ironically, it took agent Ed Mireless and his .357 Magnum to take down BOTH Platt and his buddy Bill Matix single-handedly.
So they sought something bigger, and with higher capacity. But the 1076 never amounted to more than a 'test' which proved a failure; they ordered 10,000 pistols but it soon became apparent it was a mistake and canceled the order after receiving just 2,400. It didn't help that Smith & Wesson performed a recall on their 10mm pistols in 1991. They eventually chose the Glock in .40-S&W as the final solution, the reason for my comment (which is historically accurate) in the way I stated it.
Some irony in all of this? It was Smith & Wesson working with Olin/Winchester that developed the .40-S&W as a diminutive version of the 10mm, just as the FBI wanted, and showcased it as SHOT 1990 alongside their traditional 'heavy' all stainless 4006. But it took them some time thereafter to get the 4006 to store shelves, and it didn't resonate as well with law-enforcement; everyone wanted a Glock or something like it. But Glock did not have a polymer/striker fired gun chambered in .40-S&W (yet) and neither did S&W. But Glock had the 17.
1990 was also the first year the Gaston Glock attended SHOT and ironically was showcasing the Glock 20 in 10mm. After hearing about the S&W booth putting their new wonderful .40 round on display, Karl Walter, Glock's top US executive at the time, tipped Gaston off to the new round. With Gaston still having the luxury of being relatively anonymous at SHOT, he sauntered over to the S&W booth like any other unknown schmo to abscond a few sample rounds of the new .40-S&W. Upon examination he realized he could modify the 17 to fit the new round, and beat S&W to the market with the Glock 22 and 23 in early/mid 1990 before Smith was even ready with their 4006 for mass production. Smith didn't even have their Sigma ready until 1994 with full production not on board until 1997, which was really just a copy of the Glock, and not a good one at that. Too little too late.
So with all of the above, I stand by my original comment. The FBI eventually ordered a BUNCH of Glocks, and continued to do so for over 18 years of a run, where all that other fooling around with other makes/models/calibers was just exprimentation to reach their final conclusion to adopt the Glock 22 and 23, which initially arose out of the fateful events that April 11th, 1986.
(I got my Glock 23 in October 1990).
.Last edited by CALI-gula; 07-31-2025, 7:06 AM.------------------------Comment
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Glock fanbois are so incredibly tiresome.
Dr. Goldstein showed us the way. We dropped the ball. Pick up the ball.Comment
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to me glock is the casio watch of guns
casio wrist watches have 2 jobs one keep good time and fit on your wrist
glock has 2 jobs be accurate and be reliableComment
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Here's my Model 59 wearing KSD Turkish walnut grips:
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A pic of some of my S&W auto duty guns. Unfortunately I no longer have my original M-59. My favorite is the M-639.
Poke'm with a stick!
Originally posted by fiddletownComment
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I am a big fan of 3rd Gen S&Ws and have 915 5906 4506, 4506-1 and 1006.
Long ago I had a early/mid-80s 645 from the Bangor-Punta days of S&W and it was 'ungood' -
only feed plain 230gr std ball. Trigger needed cleaning. Traded it off to a gunsmith who was
gonna tear it down and build up a bowling pin gun.
I am unclear how good 59s vs 459s are/were.
But I love my 5906 and 910 for 9mm.
There is rumor - helped by some of S&W's social media posts flashing a 5906 - that maybe
some Gen 3 metal guns may come back.
Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
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No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.Comment
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S&W has certainly made some great handguns and some turds. My original 59 would feed anything. At the time it didn't seem accurate, and people often said they encouraged spray and pray. I can't honestly say it was all the gun, might have been none of the gun. I've learned just a little bit about shooting and reloading since 1982 or so, whenever it was.
I have an affinity for the 945. They seem well made and accurate. Jerry Miculek (nice guy) had a little video praising them IIRC.
I got to meet Roy Jinks at the SHOT Show long ago, still have the S&W history book he signed for me somewhere. Another nice guy.There are some people that it's just not worth engaging.
It's a muzzle BRAKE, not a muzzle break. Or is your muzzle tired?Comment
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