Need Help: W. German 226 or CZ-75?

[SFgiants105]

Hello Calguns,

(If you want to ignore my rant and just read my question, skip to second paragraph)
I just stumbled on a thread by PendulousMind where he is restoring a West German p226, and it got me thinking, I really want to do something like that right now. I have been contemplating doing mods on my RIA 1911, but all the mods are so damn expensive and half of them need a gunsmith just to be safe. I then realized that I am tired of my 1911. The ammo is just so damn expensive, and I hate the single stack mags (the 10rounder looks so dumb), and I hate the fact that I can't just drop a round down the barrel and close the mag (so I have 10+1). I also can't stand the GI sights, and am not willing to go through the effort it takes to bring the gun up to the level I want it. I just want a gun that has all the features I want already on it (so, FYI, if anyone wants a GI RIA .45 1911 with WC starburst cocobolo grips, I am trying to sell for $340ish; might have to WTS/WTT it soon).


So I have broken it down into these pros and cons:

CZ-75 SP-01

Pros:
-price
-reliability and accuracy
-rail
-can buy NIB

Cons:
-looks


W. German Sig Sauer P226

Pros:
-price (compared to new Sig)
-quality (compared to new Sig)
-historical/cool factor (the main thing that makes this a hard decision)
-looks

Cons:
-no rail (another thing making this a very hard decision)
-it costs a little more than a CZ, and it isn't as easy to find (making it cost even more since I would have to ship and FFLT it)
-will cost even more if LNIB, but I don't care since I can Cerakote it later

I have always envied the people that can say "Oh yeah, I have a West German 226. No big deal. " I want to be one of those people, but I want to be practical first. I really want a rail, since I didn't have the option of mounting a light on my 1911 (btw, are the pistol rails the same size as the ones on a regular AR, so 1913 Picatinny?).

Is there a way to mount a light to a rail-less pistol? If so, the decision is pretty clear to me.

I would like to hear from people who have both a CZ-75 and a 226 (not necessarily W. German). I have shot the 226 and really like it, but have not had the chance to handle a CZ. This is a really tough decision for me. Any help would be much appreciated.

[beretta929mm]

West Germany.

I miss the cold war.

[Lead Waster]

From your pro/con list, I would say CZ75, since it's only downside is "looks".

However from a "rarity" perspective, I would get the WG 226. You can buy a NIB CZ75 pretty much anytime. I mean, after the supply chain ramps up again on CZs.

I've not shot a 226, but I have an SP-01 and an SA and they are fantastic.

Also, I don't get your comment on not being able to get 10+1. Why don't you just, insert a magazine, rack the slide, engage the safety, remove the magazine, put in a new 10 round topped off magazine.

Who ever drops a round into the chamber? Maybe you can do that with a Beretta with it's huge ejection port, but I've never heard of people doing this as a standard way to get 10+1.

[SFgiants105]

Also, I don't get your comment on not being able to get 10+1. Why don't you just, insert a magazine, rack the slide, engage the safety, remove the magazine, put in a new 10 round topped off magazine.

Who ever drops a round into the chamber? Maybe you can do that with a Beretta with it's huge ejection port, but I've never heard of people doing this as a standard way to get 10+1.

I have to do that if I want +1 in the chamber, but it's a pain in the anus. Because of the internal extractor, I don't have the option of dropping one in the tube, which I do with any glock, sig, hk, or otherwise.

I do really want a WG 226, but the huge issue for me here is no rail. Is there no way to mount a light on a rail-less pistol?

[Distro]

I do really want a WG 226, but the huge issue for me here is no rail. Is there no way to mount a light on a rail-less pistol?

Surefire rail mount for p226, you could probably find it cheaper if it isn't direct from Surefire.

http://www.surefire.com/MR14-Mounting-Rail?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&cvsfa=1166&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=4d52313441

[Lead Waster]

Sorry if I'm missing something, but I have an RIA Tactical and I can easily put one in the chamber leaving me with 10+1 with a 10 rnd magazine. In fact I can get +1 in every autoloader I have.

You are actually opening the slide, and dropping a round in the chamber?

And, again, maybe I'm missing something, but here is what I do (I only do this when I "make ready" at a USPSA match).

1) Insert a magazine into the gun
2) rack the slide, this puts one in the chamber
3) Take out that magazine
4) Insert a magazine with 10 rounds in it

Now my gun has 10+1 rounds.

What am I not getting here?

[Iknownot]

I think you should shoot both and decide which you like better. To be fair, they really are fairly similar in ergonomics and handling. It'll come down to which you think feels better. I have shot both and I think I shoot both equally as well (at last from what I've seen at the range), but I like the sig better. I have a buddy that feels the exact opposite way and went with CZ.

It's all personal preference. The one major difference between them really, is price, if you are looking at new. Used, I don't think it matters much. It's pretty easy to find a used 226 in the $600 range.

As for the whole west german sig, blah, blah, blah, I have tried new sigs and old ones and they really all pretty much feel the same, even across various models like 225 vs 226, vs 229 vs 220, with the obvious nods to differences in size and weight.

So if you find a deal on a lightly used newer sig, go for it. A sig is a sig is a sig, as far as I've seen. Unless you just want the West German Sig for the collectable side of things. However if you are planning on shooting it a lot, I can't see how it'd matter.

(I'm sure the super sig fans are going to disagree with me).

[rplusplus]

I think you should shoot BUY both and decide which you like better...

Here fixed that for you.

Here is my biased opinion.

The CZ... at the end of the day, buy what you would want to shoot more.

[pc_load_letter]

Mark over at SummitGunBroker has some West German Sig 226's (non railed) for $450. Get em while their hot!

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/226_9mm.html

[himurax13]

I have to do that if I want +1 in the chamber, but it's a pain in the anus. Because of the internal extractor, I don't have the option of dropping one in the tube, which I do with any glock, sig, hk, or otherwise.

I do really want a WG 226, but the huge issue for me here is no rail. Is there no way to mount a light on a rail-less pistol?

Well what you are doing is called cowboy loading and it is generally not reccomended for most pistols. The rim of the bullets usually slips in from underneath when you are loading the mag. If you are loading it in the chamber, the extractor has to slide and snap over the rim, which it was not meant to do. That can cause the extractor to break much sooner than it should. Topping off with another mag and then inserting a full one is the preferred method. If you go to any pistol competitions, that is how it is done.

As far as the RIA goes, sell it and get a tactical version. I am a firm believer that GI 1911 models of any kind sucks in comparison to any "Tactical" or "Loaded" variations and upgrading them is kind of pointless since your investment will not yield any returns.

You can mount a rail to a rail less pistol so that you can mount a light but it will involve tapping and drilling holes for the rail. The end result is typically not appealling to the eye.

As far as your SP01 vs. P226 debate goes, what is the intended purpose of this pistol? Competition, home defense, plinking at the range? A nicely broken in P226 has an excellent trigger, however the SP01 has decent amount of aftermarket support. Almost every mod you can do to an SP01 can be done at home with a general tools and some patience. No fancy jigs to buy.

[SFgiants105]

Surefire rail mount for p226, you could probably find it cheaper if it isn't direct from Surefire.

http://www.surefire.com/MR14-Mounting-Rail?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&cvsfa=1166&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=4d52313441

That should fit on the W. German one right? Sounds like the way to go. I think I'm gonna get the Sig. I agree with the poster saying that I can get a CZ anytime. Also, I don't believe the handling/accuracy is better with W.German as opposed to new Sigs, but I have heard QC has gone way down with Sig since their W.German years. Also, at half the price, how can you argue with that? I found one mfg'd in 1994, so I am going to try to get it.

Well what you are doing is called cowboy loading and it is generally not reccomended for most pistols. The rim of the bullets usually slips in from underneath when you are loading the mag. If you are loading it in the chamber, the extractor has to slide and snap over the rim, which it was not meant to do. That can cause the extractor to break much sooner than it should. Topping off with another mag and then inserting a full one is the preferred method. If you go to any pistol competitions, that is how it is done.

As far as the RIA goes, sell it and get a tactical version. I am a firm believer that GI 1911 models of any kind sucks in comparison to any "Tactical" or "Loaded" variations and upgrading them is kind of pointless since your investment will not yield any returns.

Okay, I will not cowboy load anymore. I have only done it with rentals anyway. I only want an external extractor because it will in general, even if only slightly more often, feed more reliably.

As for the RIA, I am over 1911s in general. I bought mine because of 1911s I rented and loved. But it is a huge pain to own, and .45 ACP is way too expensive for me. There are just too many things about it that I don't like. Maybe when I have enough for a Kimber, I will look into it again, but until then, DA/SA is the way to go for me right now.

Thanks for the help guys.

[tbc]

Mark over at SummitGunBroker has some West German Sig 226's (non railed) for $450. Get em while their hot!

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/226_9mm.html

For $450, I would get it now!

Even if you decided to get a CZ SP-01 instead, it is not easy to find one.



Sent from IPhone

[SFgiants105]

I looked on the CA DOJ handgun roster and noticed that there are a lot of p226 Sigs on there. Is it safe to assume that any p226 is on the roster? Let me ask it this way, is there any P226 that is not on the handgun roster? I saw a sweet W.German in pretty good condition for $500 on gunbroker that ends in one day. It just says P226 on it with "Made in W.Germany" underneath; serial number is 506,000 something or other. There's no "stainless" or "elite" anything like that written on it, just plain P226




This should be fine right?

[elsolo]

If you are going the safe queen route and want a pretty gun to take pictures of next to a knife and watch so you can post the online, the Sig will get more applause.

If you want to shoot the crap out of it, then you need to actually try both models and see which fits YOU better. I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the CZ, as well as the much lower bore axis.