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  • #16
    rogervzv
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2011
    • 2087

    Originally posted by redcliff
    Although I'm a DW fan, and I think the PM-7 is an excellent pistol, to say it will "shoot the lights out" of some of the custom made pistols (and some of the semi-customs) is an exaggeration.
    Good to stimulate discussion.

    My real point is that for a lot of the "custom" guns what you are really paying for is the fact that many of these brands are selling hand-made guns with hand-fitted components. While expensive and impressive, this approach does not yield a superior gun as compared to modern state-of-the-art digital manufacturing techniques using statistical quality control and quality metals and components.

    Personally I look askance at "hand fitted" guns. If the manufacturing technique is so imperfect as to require "hand fitting" of parts, I do not see this as a good thing. For two centuries the holy grail of gun manufacturing was to manufacture parts with sufficient quality and precision that hand fitting was not necessary. This has now been achieved and hand fitting of parts is regression not progress.

    The humble Ruger SR1911, which does not have a match barrel even, is still a superb gun for the money and is mainly the product of good manufacturing processes.

    Sure Les Baer and some of the others make fine firearms. But I have seen Baers that had slides so tight that the gun was not reliable until it had fired many hundreds of rounds. In fact I believe that is what they tell their buyers. That is not indicative of 21st century manufacturing techniques.

    My two DW PM7-45s were tight as hell out of the box and still are thousands of rounds later. But they operated correctly from the first round and to this day I have never had a FTF, stovepipe, or anything like that. (This is mostly shooting reloads and Blazers and other mediocre ammunition.) To the extent that Baers do not meet this criteria, yes, it will shoot their lights out.

    Off my soapbox now...
    Come and Take It!
    I'm the only hell my momma ever raised ...

    Comment

    • #17
      Snoopy47
      Veteran Member
      • Aug 2010
      • 3887

      Originally posted by rogervzv
      Good to stimulate discussion.

      My real point is that for a lot of the "custom" guns what you are really paying for is the fact that many of these brands are selling hand-made guns with hand-fitted components. While expensive and impressive, this approach does not yield a superior gun as compared to modern state-of-the-art digital manufacturing techniques using statistical quality control and quality metals and components.
      Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.

      Comment

      • #18
        451040
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2009
        • 2169

        Originally posted by FLAWLS1
        What is the best custom 1911? ... Wilson Combat, Dan wesson, NightHawk, Les Baer, Ed Brown, etc.?
        Aren't those more semi-custom?

        Comment

        • #19
          keenkeen
          Calguns Addict
          • May 2011
          • 6782

          Originally posted by 451040
          Aren't those more semi-custom?
          Yes, they are.
          Last edited by keenkeen; 04-27-2012, 6:44 AM.
          "But far more numerous was the herd of such, Who think too little and who talk too much." -John Dryden

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          • #20
            CaffeinFeign
            Member
            • Feb 2012
            • 323

            [QUOTE=redcliff;8478010]Although I'm a DW fan, and I think the PM-7 is an excellent pistol, to say it will "shoot the lights out" of some of the custom made pistols (and some of the semi-customs) is an exaggeration.

            I am also a DW fan and own two, I agree with this ^^^. I have shot my DW's side by side with a friends Nighthawk. Do they shoot better? I don't think so...just diffrent. As my small collection grows, I would like to expand into higher end 1911's ..but I must admit...high ends prices and wait time does make me wonder.
            1 John 4:15 "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."

            Comment

            • #21
              Gress
              Member
              • Jan 2010
              • 250

              Originally posted by rogervzv
              Good to stimulate discussion.

              My real point is that for a lot of the "custom" guns what you are really paying for is the fact that many of these brands are selling hand-made guns with hand-fitted components. While expensive and impressive, this approach does not yield a superior gun as compared to modern state-of-the-art digital manufacturing techniques using statistical quality control and quality metals and components.

              Personally I look askance at "hand fitted" guns. If the manufacturing technique is so imperfect as to require "hand fitting" of parts, I do not see this as a good thing. For two centuries the holy grail of gun manufacturing was to manufacture parts with sufficient quality and precision that hand fitting was not necessary. This has now been achieved and hand fitting of parts is regression not progress.

              The humble Ruger SR1911, which does not have a match barrel even, is still a superb gun for the money and is mainly the product of good manufacturing processes.

              Sure Les Baer and some of the others make fine firearms. But I have seen Baers that had slides so tight that the gun was not reliable until it had fired many hundreds of rounds. In fact I believe that is what they tell their buyers. That is not indicative of 21st century manufacturing techniques.

              My two DW PM7-45s were tight as hell out of the box and still are thousands of rounds later. But they operated correctly from the first round and to this day I have never had a FTF, stovepipe, or anything like that. (This is mostly shooting reloads and Blazers and other mediocre ammunition.) To the extent that Baers do not meet this criteria, yes, it will shoot their lights out.

              Off my soapbox now...
              PM7 is sure a great gun, but if you truly appreciate modern state-of-the-art digital manufacturing techniques, look at SVI
              Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others.
              (c) Sage of Emporia

              Comment

              • #22
                brassburnz
                Veteran Member
                • Nov 2006
                • 3553

                Place an order with Bob Marvel.

                NRA Life Member
                CRPA Life Member

                Comment

                • #23
                  1911Luvr
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 1824

                  Originally posted by FLAWLS1
                  What is the best custom 1911? One day in the far future I would like to get one, but right now I'm bored so I decided to start this thread. Which custom do you like best and why? Wilson Combat, Dan wesson, NightHawk, Les Baer, Ed Brown, etc.??? I mean for $2,500 + they must definitely put the $1000 1911's to shame right?
                  None of these guns are what I consider custom. A custom gun is exactly that, custom made. If you can walk into a gun shop an buy it, and another guy whose never seen it can buy the same exact gun from a different store and now you both have the same gun, then it is at best limited production/semi-custom. All the guns you mentioned are made on a production line where the gun goes from worker to worker and each guy adding a part, not one guy building it from scratch. Is a Corvette a custom car? Nope. A Porsche? Nope. A Ferrari? Nope. A custom car is a hot rod, or a Nascar, or an Indy car, etc.- all custom built.

                  As for which custom I like best, the answer is my own because I had them custom built exactly the way I wanted. If you want to know what semi-custom I like best, I'd actually have to say I prefer the Springfield Armory Pro over any of the guns mentioned.
                  I voted against Obama before it was cool.

                  Originally posted by 1911Luvr
                  I beg to differ. The full length dust cover rail makes a world of difference in the "when I run out of bullets I'm going to beat you to death with the pistol" look that causes bad guys to run in fear, and lesser men to feel inadequate. It looks just plain beastly and the extra heft up front does help manage recoil a bit better. Plus, an angel told me that when God called JMB to heaven it was to build him a full rail 1911!

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    jlbflyboy172
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 625

                    The paperwork that came with my Night Hawk says the entire gun was built by one gunsmith and it gives his name and it is test fired through rounds - one hole at 25 yards.

                    Comment

                    • #25
                      Legasat
                      Intergalactic Member
                      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 4151

                      I really like my Dan Wesson PM-7, but I have to admit the Wilson Combat I shot was nicer. It was also 2.5 times more money.

                      I think the PM-7 is the perfect match of quality, performance & value....for me anyway.
                      ..

                      .........STGC(SW)


                      SAF Life Member

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