anyone know anything about Teflon bullets?

[S470FM]

over heard a conversation at a LGS and one of the guys claims to have Teflon bullets--is this serving that can be believed? do they even exist?

TIA

[freonr22]

[edit]History

In the 1960s, Paul Kopsch (an Ohio coroner), Daniel Turcos (a police sergeant), and Donald Ward (Kopsch's special investigator), began experimenting with special purpose handgun ammunition. Their objective was to develop a law enforcement round capable of improved penetration against hard targets, such as windshield glass and automobile doors. Conventional bullets, made primarily from lead, often become deformed and less effective after striking hard targets, especially when fired at handgun velocities. The inventors named their company "KTW," after their initials.
After some experimentation with sintered tungsten-alloy rounds, which were eventually abandoned due to supply and cost concerns, the inventors settled on a bullet consisting mostly of hardened brass with a steel core. In testing, the bullets wore out barrels far more quickly than normal copper-jacketed lead rounds, since they did not deform to fit the rifling.[1] In an effort to reduce barrel wear, the bullets were then coated with a layer of Teflon. The inventors had also noted that the tips of canes were frequently covered with the relatively soft Teflon to help them grip surfaces. KTW stated that the addition of Teflon helped to prevent bullet deflection off of doors and windshields, reducing the risk of dangerous ricochets and improving penetration against these surfaces.[2][3]
The production of KTW-brand ammunition ceased in the 1990s. However, some manufacturers continue to coat their bullets with various compounds, notably molybdenum disulfide, as a protective layer against barrel wear, and to reduce the amount of lead given off as dust when shooting in indoor ranges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teflon-coated_bullet

http://www.google.com/search?q=teflon+bullets&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

[BlackDrop50]

There are also Federal .38 spl Nyclad bullets which are coated with nylon

[BDH]

The Nyclad .38s were sold in boxes of 50 (still have some) and the KTW in bags of 10. I have one bag of KTW .38 Super in my cartridge collection. It's a truncated cone bullet of about 124 or so grains (that's a guess, haven't seen the bag in several months). Too expensive to shoot.
Bruce

[SVT-40]

Possession of KTW or other AP type hand gun rounds is a felony in California.......Just for info.

[pyromensch]

There are also Federal .38 spl Nyclad bullets which are coated with nylon

and the nyclad bullet first was produced by smith and weeson, and were/are primarily to reduce airborne lead particles, and have to "penetration" benefits

[Army]

KTW's are not armor piercing. They are improved penetration bullets. Big difference.

Current issue M855 5.56mm ammo also has a steel penetrator, but is NOT armor piercing.

True AP handgun ammo has a pointed tip with a tungston penetrator, fully designed to pierce armor plate or resistant protective materials such as Police style vests.

KTW has a flat point, to better punch windshield glass or soft metal doors. It does not do well on protective vests.

[Can't buy anything here]

They're easy to clean with just a wet paper towel.

[Barbarossa]

"Even this gooey cheese wont stick to them!!"

[Flintlock Tom]

In California it is against the law to shoot cheese with Teflon coated bullets.

You can look it up.

[SVT-40]

KTW's are not armor piercing. They are improved penetration bullets. Big difference.

Current issue M855 5.56mm ammo also has a steel penetrator, but is NOT armor piercing.

True AP handgun ammo has a pointed tip with a tungston penetrator, fully designed to pierce armor plate or resistant protective materials such as Police style vests.

KTW has a flat point, to better punch windshield glass or soft metal doors. It does not do well on protective vests.

Federal law specifically mentions KTW handgun round as "AP".

The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17):

"(B) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' means-

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device."

[Secretary means Secretary of the Treasury, in reality determinations are delegated to the Technology Branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF)]

Note the following things from the definition:

1) The definition was changed as part of the 1994 Crime Bill (9/14/94), primarily by the addition of "full jacketed" bullets intended to be used in a handgun whose jacket is more than 25% of their weight. The previous language is at the end of this article, for comparison purposes.

2) AP ammo is the bullets ONLY, not the loaded ammo, although ATF has identified some AP ammo by the loaded ammo, not projectiles, for the information of FFL dealers, who are not supposed to "willfully" transfer AP ammo.

From this it follows that loading the bullets identified above into completed rounds does not constitute "making" AP ammo; making the bullets themselves does.

3) USE - The bullet must be able to be used in a handgun. Rather than construing this to mean regular handgun calibers, ATF construes this to mean any caliber for which a handgun has been made, including handguns in rifle calibers, like .308 Winchester, and 7.62x39, for purposes of bullets covered by (B)(i). Thus bullets suitable for these calibers, as well as other rifle calibers for which handguns have been made (at least commercially made) which are constructed as described below would or should be AP ammo.

However bullets that fall into the AP definition under (B)(ii), because their jackets comprise more than 25% of their weight (solid copper bullets?) must be intended for use in a handgun, not just be able to be used in a handgun.

4) CONSTRUCTION - The bullet must either have a core made ENTIRELY out of one or more of the listed metals, or be a full jacketed type bullet with a jacket comprising more that 25% of its weight. Thus SS109/M855 .223 (5.56mm) bullets would not be covered, because their core is only partly steel, and partly lead. Lead is not a listed metal, and bullets with cores made partly out of lead are OK. ATF has expressly ruled that SS109/M855 bullets are not covered.

5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant.

6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

California law prohibits possession , sale, importation Ect. of AP handgun rounds.

From the penal code:
30315. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state
knowingly possesses any handgun ammunition designed primarily to
penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a public offense and upon
conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to
subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or in the county jail for a term not
to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars
($5,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.



30320. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state,
manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or knowingly transports
any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or
armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a fine not to exceed
five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both that fine and
imprisonment.

[Oceanbob]

Yes..I pulled all my KTW bullets when the ban came. A felony to own now.