Shooting advice.

[TMC]

You don't need snap caps to dryfire, it won't hurt the gun. The worst case (I doubt it will every happen) is the firing pin spring in an auto might break which will set you back about 2 bucks. I have guns with tens of thousands of dryfires and not a single problem, both revolvers and autos. The gun takes no less abuse when you live fire it.

[maxicon]

I'll echo the advice to fire from a rest. I use my range bag, which results in some scorch marks with revolvers, but they add character!

Here's my 5 tier accuracy check with a new handgun. After a few trips, I have a pretty good feel for how accurate the gun is, how well it's sighted in, and how well I'm handling it. I never adjust my sights until I've shot from a rest a few times. YMMV, but this has worked very well for me over the years.

I always shoot 10 shot groups. This helps you identify flyers and keeps you from being misled by random small groups. It also works best for me at the indoors range, since there are no weather variables. I also use the Winchester white box bulk ammo for my 9mms, and it works fine for this.

You can expect each group to get larger as you go through the list, but with practice and identifying the weak spots, they'll all shrink except the first. It's also a good way of testing the gun's reliability, since your grip will change a lot across these tests.

- Shoot from a rest, with a slow, steady trigger pull. Don't check where your shots are hitting or shift your grip, just keep the sights on the target and slowly empty the mag. The sights should be very steady on the target. This should give you groups approaching the mechanical accuracy limit of the gun.

- Shoot with a 2 handed grip, standing, but leaning against the wall for steadiness. This helps isolate your hand/arm/grip steadiness from your stance steadiness. Due to the angle, if you're shooting at 7 or 10 yards and your neighbor is at 25 yards, you can punch holes in his paper, or hit the wall if you're in one of the end lanes, so be aware of this.

- Shoot with a 2 handed grip, standing, unsupported. This adds in the unsteadiness of your stance.

- Shoot with a 1 handed strong hand grip, unsupported.

- Shoot with a 1 handed weak hand grip, unsupported. These last two will help identify weak spots in grip, arm strength, etc.

For defensive guns, I throw in another tier, which is point'n'shoot against a black silhouette. I bring up the gun without aiming (and without corrective lenses, which I use for the other shooting), point it at center of mass, and empty the mag as fast as the range rules allow. This tells a lot about how good an ergo fit the gun is for you.

I consider this last to be one of the most important, since you won't always be able to use a strong stance with careful aiming in a crisis. I've got several guns that are very accurate from a careful stance but are all over the place in unaimed shooting. My primary defense guns are the ones that give me nice, small groups even when I don't aim, and different guns will do this for different people.

Be sure to report back on what you find!

max

[Clodbuster]

You can always rent the USP .40 again and shoot it side by side with your 9mm

Clod

So, I need some advice. A few months ago I started shooting a USP .40 fullsize at the local range (it was a rental, and was refurb ammo). After much practice, I was able to get really good groupings at 7 yards (about 2". Good enough for me). So I really liked the USP so much, and after much research, I bought one. Except I bought a 9mm instead of .40.

But after shooting my own USP, I can never get good groupings. I tried the same trigger control, breath control, different eyes, etc... With no luck. I use factory new Federal 124gr FMJ (bought from ammoman.com. $149 for 1,000 shipped). And I already shot aboug 600 rounds, but no tight groupings. So I don't think it's the ammo, I think it's me. And I'm pretty sure I should be able to get 1-2" groupings at 7 yards. Maybe I need to break in the gun more?

Can someone shed some light as to what I'm possibly doing wrong?

[LOW2000]

Do you follow this process with all weapons, or do you not believe in barrel break-in? I have a 24" SS upper on its way and am getting different opinions on how or if it should go through a break-in process.

Why would you think there's fouling to the point it needs cleaning? If shoots fine why would I start scrubbing and scraping the thing that makes it accurate?

Here the sonopsis of a long article by Wil Schueman the barrel maker.

http://www.schuemann.com/

"My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets...

Good luck,


Wil"

[TMC]

Do you follow this process with all weapons, or do you not believe in barrel break-in? I have a 24" SS upper on its way and am getting different opinions on how or if it should go through a break-in process.

I don't believe the barrel breaking process is necessary with most pistols, I have never do it with any of mine.

Rifles are a different deal, higher pressure, much higher velocities and much longer distances where small things make a big difference. A pistol that shoots 2 inches at 50 yards is more than most will ever need and why would you need to mess with that? A rifle that shoots 2" at 50 yards is not worth having IMO.

I typically clean my JP barreled AR every 150-200 rounds or before a big match. After 2,000+ rounds with me on the trigger it shoots 1" at 200 so it looks like its ok. A buddy with JP similar to mine shot over 300 rounds before cleaning the first time and his shoots as good as mine, go figure. There's allot of Voodoo about rifles and cleaning. My advice is to search the net and choose the process you like best.

I use a bore guide, Hoppes Copper solvent, a Tipton rod and patches only. I push a wet patch, let it sit for 15-30 minutes, then a dry and repeat until its doesn't come out green. Its takes a day or so. I can't tell if its any more or less accurate but when you sight up on a small plate at 350 yards you fell better.

For me I do maintenace based on what I'm using the gun for. I shoot allot of action pistol so supreme accuracy is less improtant that reliability, if my pistol shoot 3" at 50 that would be good enough because we rarely shoot past 30 yards on a man sized target. For a 3-gun rifle, 1MOA is enough because the toughest target is a 10" plate out to about 350. If you buying a hyper-accurate rifle for shooting out to 1,000 then I would do whatever the builder said, mostly because you'll feel better after parting with enough money to buy a nice motorcycle.

All of this said I have a Bushmaster 14.5" M-4 (with the 1.5" flash hider to make it leagal) with a chrome-lined barrel that I have never cleaned and I can shoot sub 1" groups at 100 with it.

Just my .02

Todd

[DV8]

USPs are usually pretty accurate out of the box so I think its just your technique that needs work. First thing is to dry fire a lot (AFTER TRIPLE CHECKING YOUR WEAPON IS CLEAR) when you have time. Snap caps may not be needed but they're cheap insurance. I havent seen anything inexpensive with hks, so I'd rather pop a few bucks for snap caps than pay for parts, labor plus the time it takes to fix whatever broke.

Flinching is a common problem new shooters have. I cured my friend of that by loading a dummy round or 2 in with live rounds at the range. Everytime he hit the dummy, we could both see what he was doing wrong. Another way I used is to have him start the first shot with the hammer down. Basically, rack the slide the decock the hammer then pull trigger. Helps out a lot.

[maxicon]

Do you follow this process with all weapons, or do you not believe in barrel break-in? I have a 24" SS upper on its way and am getting different opinions on how or if it should go through a break-in process.

Here are some popular quotes from famous barrel makers:

Gale McMillan - famous barrel maker:

http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

Krieger Barrels - famous barrel maker:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?template=/RapidCat/common/viewPage.cfm&PageId=2558&CompanyId=1246

And here's an excerpt from _The Complete Guide to AR-15 Accuracy_, from the folks building fine competition ARs over at Accuracy Speaks (http://www.accuracyspeaks.com):

"The Accuracy Speaks philosophy of breaking in a new barrel is to go to the range and shoot until you're out of ammo or tired of the recoil and noise. However, some enthusiasts insist upon the shoot one and clean; shoot two and clean, etc, procedure or some permutation thereof. Actually, I believe that the most important aspect of breaking in a barrel is to shoot enough rounds through it so the burr is gone off the gas port before the customer ever looks through the bore..."

max

[dascoyne]

Your experience is not all that unusual.
Often, someone handling the gun for the first time will shoot pretty tight because:
1.) They'll tense up their arms and grip the gun very tightly ... which is OK at first but will tire the user's arms quickly. 2.) They won't know the recoil in the beginning - which is a virtue because later they find themselves "anticipating" the recoil. This leads to trigger mash which makes the user shoot low. Also it causes them to blink or flinch when they fire.

My advice is to practice dry firing.

BTW - why the heck did you get a 9mm? Especially when you liked the .40?

[Freedom]

Why the 9mm

I'm sure this might open up a new can of worms, but, I wanted cheaper ammo so I can practice more. I went back and forth quite a few times between the .40 and 9mm regarding whats better for self defense. But after spending countless hours researching, I decided with a good HP round, the 9mm was good enough to defend my family.

I'm also going to buy a Ruger PC9, so now I can even shoot more and more

[TMC]

How do you guys test? Only two of us suggested shooting off of a solid object? Trigger getting better? having a "better shooter" test it for you? the Range Master? man I guess you guys dont shoot where I do, some of those guys couldn't hit the floor with thier hat. If I want to test a handgun I shoot it off sandbags at 15 and 25 yards, if your stand anything can make you move, hell the trigger hitting the end of its travel after the hammer has fallen just as the bullet it leaving the barrel can change the point of impact.

Go to the range, pile up sandbags or get a carpet covered block, something you can rest the gun on that doesn't move, you should be sitting when you shoot, rest the dustcover on the sandbag/block, shoot a least 5 rounds 10 is better with the same sight picture, don't worry about where the bullets are hitting just keep the same sight pitcure, shoot slow with a steady press straight to the rear with the tip of you finger like your trying to push the trigger out the back of the gun. If the holes are in a group its the sights, you of a smith should be able to adjust them. If the holes they are all over the place its the gun, so send it back to the factory or take it to a smith. There, your done and you did it all by yourself.

[Omega13device]

You need to take a basic pistol shooting and safety class. Big time. It will be the best investment you can make in terms of improving your technique and understanding how pistols work. It will also give you the opportunity to get lots of good questions answered. You can usually find a good class at a local gun club.