PPK Questions

[Waingro]

I recently posted about small guns. From the information I gathered a .22, .25, .32 would be as effective as a knife in self defense. So I went back to Turners to look at sizes and I took a look at the famous 007 gun, the Walther PPK. The gentleman informed me that they make 2 models, a smaller one (PPK) and a larger one (PPKS I believe). He also informed me that S&W took over Walther and they are now producing the PPK.

What is the general consensus regarding the PPK? Is it reliable? .380 is not the most powerful round but it the best stopping power vs. size ratio. What do you all think of the PPK?

I am not a collector or anything of that sort, but the sales person informed me that the PPK was better before S&W took over. What are the differences? Should I search for a used one?

I also would like to take this gun to the range, what is the price comparison of .380 and 9mm (not range reloads)?

[RP1911]

I have a PPK/S (West German). It was one of my CCW guns when I had a CCW. The gun is reliable as well as accurate. Conceals well. Never had a jam - failure to feed or failure to extract.

As far as caliber, I leave you with this thought...practice, practice, practice your shot placement. Two and one.

If I were to have a CCW again, my choices for carry from personal experience would be a Sig P220, standard 1911, PPK/S and S&W 640.

The larger handguns are concealable if you pay attention to what you wear and use the correct holsters.

[Miltiades]

Interesting gun

The Walther PPK is a classic gun, having first been marketed in 1928 and still in production, at least recently. It has gone through many cycles and has been produced by several manufacturers, including S&W. This is a license agreement with Walther in Germany, not a S&W "takeover" of Walther as your gun salesman said.

I've had a PPK in .380 for about 10 years. It is the Interarms version, which was made in the US under license by Interarms for a number of years. I bought it as a novelty because of the 007 connection and because I liked the way it looked. I have shot it at the range on occasion and it has worked quite well, being surprisingly accurate for a small gun. It is the thinnest gun I own, with a slide width of about 0.85 inches. The grip isn't much wider, either.

As for ballistics, the .380 is less potent than 9mm. Typical muzzle energy for a .380 is about 200 ft-lbs, while 9mm is more often in the 350 to 400 ft-lb energy range.

[paul0660]

Look at the FEG Pa-63. J and G sales has them on sale for $100 right now. (Add $15 for a second mag). They are a clone of the PP, so are a little longer than the PPK. I bought 4 of them and gave three of them to my kids for home defense. They are like new, haven't had any feed issues, and the 9x18 round is a little more powerful than the .380. They have god awful double action trigger pull that can be cured with a Wolff spring.

I carry mine iwb in the summer, and easily forget it is there.

[maxicon]

I've been shooting a friend's PPK/S recently, and I don't particularly care for it. It's been reliable, but the recoil is sharp and uncomfortable, which surprised me, as it's fairly heavy for a .380. The grips were hard, which probably contributed. It irritated the web of my hand, and I thought the sights were terrible.

It was reliable, and I didn't get the slide bite that so many complain about, but I much prefer my Makarov in .380. It's a much more comfortable shooter, and is more accurate for me, despite the long, springy trigger. It is heavier, though, and a bit wider.

The PPK has to be manufactured in the US, and can't be imported due to the GCA ofn 1968. The PPK/S can be imported - it was designed to be the importable version of the PPK. This is part of the reason S&W is doing joint ventures with Walther - they can leverage their US manufacturing, and can re-brand some Walther pistols with the S&W brand (not that they do that with the PPK, AFAIK).

Updated - The one I've been shooting is the larger PPK/S, not the PPK.

[wilshire1412]

My suggestion is to look elsewhere for a serious defense pistol, if you need small and compact there are other handguns available that are a better choice. The German/French made Walther PP series are great handguns as well as collectable fun little pistols, I don't care much for the Interarms USA or the Smith & Wesson built variety. I personally own about 8 or 9 Walther pistols, all post WWII except for the two P38s I have, I would rather choose any Glock in any caliber over the Walthers to use as a carry or defense pistol. One of the PPk pistols I had was purchased from an old timer that kept it under the seat of his car, where it sat for about 20 years or so. This was a German made PPk in .32acp that would have been in perfect condition had it been cared for properly, nonetheless a Glock would have survived 20 years under a car seat in better cosmetic shape than the Walther did. The point I would emphasize is that if you want a user piece that you will not cry over if something happens to it buy a Glock 26 or maybe one of the small Kahr pistols. Just my .02c/YMMV.

[erblo]

I have a S&W PPKS in .380, and I like it. My complaints would be that the sights are a bit small and it irritates the web of my hand after 50 rounds or so. It is very reliable though, no malfunctions.

It's a fun gun to have, but the reality is that it is a very outdated design. If you are buying a gun for functionality or ccw use I would look into a Kahr MK9. It's a single stack 9mm that looks awesome and feels great in the hand.

[WolfMansDad]

PPK's are fun. I find the recoil in .380 unpleasant. I used to carry a PP in .32 and liked it a lot. With the relatively long barrel of the PP/PPK/PPKS, .32 is plenty potent if you use hot loads. Fiocchi works well.

Pros: Slim and VERY easy to conceal. All rounded edges so nothing snags on clothing. Wonderful balance and accuracy. Good trigger in single-action mode. I could shoot my walther far faster and with much more accuracy than my macho friends could do with their .45's or even their 9mm's.

Cons: Awkward safety. (I used to pocket carry mine with a round in the chamber, the safety off, and the hammer down. ) Double-action trigger on the first shot, unless you thumb the hammer back. Some people consider this a "pro," though. Some also consider the .32 and .380 to both be underpowered, but my shot placement was so much better with the walther than with anything else, I didn't figure it mattered.

[Waingro]

I have a glock 19 and it's not that much bigger then the smaller glocks. they are so thick. and the kahr is pretty expensive, and i can't find one at turners.

Kahr is ~$900
PPK is ~$500

but size does matter, the actual gun and the caliber. could anyone give me a size comparison?

[erblo]

I have a glock 19 and it's not that much bigger then the smaller glocks. they are so thick. and the kahr is pretty expensive, and i can't find one at turners.

Kahr is ~$900
PPK is ~$500

but size does matter, the actual gun and the caliber. could anyone give me a size comparison?

The MK9's on Gunbroker are going for ~$600. With Night sights add ~$80.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=87047500

Compared to G26:


Just because Turner's doesn't have it doesn't mean it isn't good; in fact, you could argue the opposite...

[WolfMansDad]

Wain, there's a world of difference between a ppk and a glock 19. In practice, the difference between a 19 and a 26 is significant. I can pocket carry the 26 but not the 19. The slide on a ppk is shorter than the slide on a glock 26.

That said, when I do carry now, I carry a glock.

[Miltiades]

Comparative size, PPK and Kahr MK9

Kahr is ~$900
PPK is ~$500
but size does matter, the actual gun and the caliber. could anyone give me a size comparison?

I have a PPK and a Kahr MK9, and the Kahr is slightly thicker and heavier than the PPK (24 ounces vs. 21 ounces), but comparable in length and height. I much prefer the Kahr for shooting or defense because of the 9mm caliber vs. the .380 in the PPK. The Kahr actually recoils less than the PPK because the PPK is "blowback" design with the barrel attached to the frame, while the Kahr has a typical unlocking barrel design.

I don't have a comparative picture of the PPK and the MK9, but here is a shot of the MK9 with a S&W 642 revolver and a Colt Defender (3 inch barrel) to give you an idea:

[maxicon]

Here are a few pics of my friend's PPK/S and my Kahr PM9, as well as some stats.

The PPK/S is rounder but not as flat, and the spur really extends the length. The Kahr is much flatter, which helps a lot, IMO.

Weight - PPK/S - 26.4 oz 7+1, Kahr - 20.0 oz 7+1, 19.3 oz 6+1
Width at muzzle - PPK/S 0.86", PM9 - 0.90"
Width at grip - PPK/S 1.17", PM9 - 0.91"
Width at safety and slide lever - PPK/S 0.97", PM9 - 1.02"
Height - PPK/S 4.8" (finger rest mag), 4.36" (standard mag), PM9 - 4.8" (extended mag), 4.15" (standard mag)
Length - PPK/S 6.35", PM9 - 5.52"

They're more similar than I had expected, but the PM9 feels a lot more concealable and smooth. Add that it's got better accuracy for me and a good bit more muzzle energy, and it makes a pretty compelling argument. Not as interesting as a PPK, though.

PPK/S and PM9 with standard 7 and 6 round mags:


PPK/S with finger rest 7 round and PM9 with extended 7 round:


And the rear view - I like the PM9 sights much better than the PPK/S:

[WolfMansDad]

What kind of trigger does that kahr have, double-action only?

[yzErnie]

I've carried a s/s PPKs as a carry piece for 30 years. Other than my Sig P230 or Sig P232 there is no other gun I like better. Again, regardless of whether you shoot a hand cannon or a .22lr, shot placement is the key.