high/low bore axis

[Moto4Fun]

All things (bullet, barrel length/mass, slide length/mass, etc) being the same, the higher bore axis should cause more muzzle flip; however, nothing is ever the same. The perceived recoil, muzzle flip, and ability to get back on target is influenced by the whole package. Frame material and the balance of the pistol, along with your ability to get a good grip makes more of a difference (IMO) than bore height.

[Gryff]

Thanks for the breakdown. I get the physics involved so the general consensus is that the pistol with the lowest bore axis is the most ideal?

There's more to it than that. Shoot a Glock and an XD one after the other, and you'll find that there is more movement during recoil with the XD. But you will also find that there are people who can shoot an XD faster and more accurately than a Glock because they are better served by the ergonomics of the XD's grip.

Bore axis is a consideration, but rarely the most important one. It really comes down to which gun feels best in your hand while shooting it (not just holding it in a gun store).

[Moto4Fun]

The sacrifice for low bore axis that I found on the CZ was the slide serrations were difficult to grasp. The slide design is quite different on that pistol though.

[BamBam-31]

There's more to it than that. Shoot a Glock and an XD one after the other, and you'll find that there is more movement during recoil with the XD. But you will also find that there are people who can shoot an XD faster and more accurately than a Glock because they are better served by the ergonomics of the XD's grip.

Bore axis is a consideration, but rarely the most important one. It really comes down to which gun feels best in your hand while shooting it (not just holding it in a gun store).

Brother, that is Da Truth.

[elSquid]

How does expanding gas impart an impulse to the barrel? Does a fixed barrel gun - like a H&K P7 - therefore not have any recoil?

Poked my nose around youtube, found a nice video.



I really need to pick up a P7. I miss my old PSP...

-- Michael

[Turo]

So fixed barrel guns don't recoil? H&K P7, HiPoint, Walther PPKs, etc...

-- Michael

Not sure what you mean. I said that the barrel pushing on the frame was the transfer mechanism for the recoil force. Wouldn't a fixed barreled gun be able to transfer a force between the barrel and frame?

[elSquid]

Not sure what you mean. I said that the barrel pushing on the frame was the transfer mechanism for the recoil force. Wouldn't a fixed barreled gun be able to transfer a force between the barrel and frame?

Well, you said the impact of the barrel hitting the frame is responsible for recoil.

The only reason that the barrel moves backwards in, say a Glock, is because it is locked to the slide, and the slide moves backwards due to the impulse on the breechface...

Another way of looking at it: take the fixed barrel of a P7. During combustion, when the bullet is traveling down the barrel, what forces are acting on it? There are balanced forces radiating outwards perpendicular to the bore due to the pressure of combustion, and a force pulling the barrel forwards due to the friction between the bore and the projectile.

What force is there on the barrel pushing it rearwards that you would suggest causes the actual recoil?

Perhaps we need to take Mike's joke seriously and draw a free body diagram for this!

-- Michael

[Rekrab]

Speaking of "snappy", I don't think there is a noticeable difference between a high bore axis pistol and a low bore axis pistol. Therefore, I would not be concerned about it.

Now, comparing a 9mm and 40SW is what I would be concerned.

I have a Chiappa Rhino that says there can be a huge difference between high and low if the difference is great enough.

[HighValleyRanch]

Take a gun where the slide is free to recoil completely off the frame: no locking logs on the barrel, no recoil spring assembly, front of the slide machined appropriately. When the gun is fired, you won't feel any recoil - the slide will experience an impulse, and will travel rearward and off the frame. Bore axis no affect.

You won't feel any recoil, because you will be knocked out from the slide hitting you in the temple!

[tbc]

I have a Chiappa Rhino that says there can be a huge difference between high and low if the difference is great enough.

Have not tried the Rhino. But I'm sure you are right if the difference is great enough.

Again, recommendation to the OP to consider other attributes besides low bore axis when considering "snappy". Also if you grip them firm enough, you may not notice the difference. Besides the Rhino, I was comparing HKs, XDs, M&Ps, FNP, Sigs, and Glocks with the same calibers (some 9mm and some 45 acp) and could not conclude the correlation between bore axis and "snappy". And yes, I know the physic behind it.