Is .380 still even considered?

[savasyn]

It seems that back in the day .380 was what you got if you wanted a small, lightweight carry semiauto with more stoping power than a .22 instead of a .38 snubby. With the advent of polymer frames and subcompact 9mm semiautos, has .380 pretty much fallen out of favor even in with the summertime carry set?

I live in LA so legal carry is right out anyway. As such, I gravitated towards heavier hitters and have settled on the .40 as my chambering of choice for competition and HD. That said, though I've never had one, but I've always liked the Sig 230, now 232. If I got one in six months or so, will .380 ammo still be available and affordable(compared to 9mm)? I'm not expecting it to just up and disappear or anything, just perhaps be less common at places like Turners that seem to cater to what sells best(not like that is a bad business move or anything.)

So .380?

Yeah go for it cuz it's fun and perhaps good for the wife(who already shoots 9mm, .40 and .45.)

or

Don't bother, it's a dying has-been that just gets more expensive with age.

[The SoCal Gunner]

So .380?

Yeah go for it cuz it's fun and perhaps good for the wife(who already shoots 9mm, .40 and .45.)

or

Don't bother, it's a dying has-been that just gets more expensive with age.

Since you can't CCW I'd say no, BUT it is always nice to have another gun. There is also the chance that a .380 will become an artificial collectible in CA if it falls off the list. Ammo is quite expensive and because the purpose of such a small gun is for CCW, I'd want to be able to trust the gun by putting at least 500 rounds through. There is always the chance that you move to a more CCW friendly county or that you decide to get an out of state CCW.

Personally, I wouldn't unless it was a good deal because I don't have a CCW. If I did, I would definitely want one or two or three as the larger caliber guns tend to get bulky and being comfortable with what you carry means that you will carry more often.

[RT13]

The P232 is a gorgeous pistol. Too bad they don't offer it in 9mm. I have always wanted to own this pistol, but it's .380 caliber always kept me from actually buying one. There are so much more choices for a sub compact gun chambered in 9mm or .40cal. The Hk P2000SK is one great choice. And the P239 is available in 9,40,and .357 sig. Though it is a bit bulkier than others. If you want the P232 just to add to the collection and have the money to buy one just to have one, then you should get one. If it's for the wife because she can shoot it well and manage the low recoil, go for it. I personally wouldn't carry one for any type of self defense. If you really wnat one just for the hell of it, just go for it. Ammo is harder to find for it now but I don't think it will go away so much that it will be very hard to find let alone at a decent price. But then again this is CA.

[Miltiades]

Look at the ballistic numbers

If you are considering a .380 for defense, it is useful to look at comparative ballistics. A typical .380 uses a 90 grain bullet with 1000 fps muzzle velocity, giving about 200 foot-lbs. of muzzle energy.

The corresponding numbers for 9mm are in the range of a 125 grain bullet with muzzle velocity of 1200 fps for close to 400 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. The 9mm will generally penetrate deeper and expand larger, and is more likely to stop an attacker with a well placed shot.

At one time the small semiautos were generally in .32 or .380 caliber, such as the Walther PPK or the Seecamp. But now there are some very small 9mm guns available, such as the various Kahrs, the Walther PPS and the Glock 26. There is no good reason to choose .380 for defense over 9mm, unless you are concerned about recoil.

I own one .380, a Walther PPK, but mainly bought it as a novelty and don't use it for defense:

[VegasND]

Realistically, the advent of the very small 9mm pistols has, in my perception at least, limited the appeal of the .380 for defense.

I have one of the very small P3AT pistols and also KelTec's PF9. The difference is noticeable but the 9 is small enough that it is barely noticeable, much smaller than my Kimber Ultra and a whole lot lighter.

This has pushed the .380 back to a 'deep carry' kind of status. I only carry the .380 if I want to feel completely undetectable. Some people carry those tiny .22 single-action revolvers for this as they are even smaller.

I'm seriously considering a Rohrbaugh.

As for ammo, you can be sure it will be available for a long time, but the cost will always be higher than 9mm.

[Max-the-Silent]

I own several .380's but I seldom fire them, and really don't have any use for them. They stay in the safe. Having said that, why not buy one if you dig them and can afford it?

[maxicon]

.380 will always be available in a wide range of loads. It's one of the long-life mainstream cartridges. It is more expensive than 9mm (what centerfire round isn't?), but availability will never be a problem. The big issue with .380 is that you're trading off penetration against expansion. If the round expands, you don't get much penetration, and vice-versa.

The P232 falls in the category of old-school carry to me (along with the PPK, Makarov, etc), as it weighs 16 oz empty (20 oz for stainless). Add another 4 oz for a loaded mag, and you're at 20-24 oz for 7+1 rounds of .380.

For a more modern comparison, the Kahr PM9 weighs 20 oz loaded with 7+1 rounds (extended mag) of 9mm Gold Dot. Same weight, lots more oomph. I like my PM9 quite a lot, but not everybody does.

I have a Makarov in .380, and it's a great little gun, but if I had to choose between it and the P232 as a carry gun, it would be no choice at all.

Now, the Keltec P3AT is a different matter, and is a good tradeoff between being very concealable while losing muzzle energy, but you can't get them easily here.

[Stanze]

I made small talk with a guy at a baseball game snack line, he revealed himself to be a former gang-member and showed me his leg where most of the muscle mass was missing only covered by scared up skin. I shuddered when he said a .380 ACP round did that. Granted it didn't kill him, but proper shot placement would have with that kind of damage.

[Black Majik]

There is still a place for .380, but it's soon being phased out by the 9mm pocket guns. There are so many pocket rocket choices nowadays in 9mm and higher (PM9, Rohrbaugh R9, Keltec etc...) that it may be difficult to justify a same size carry gun in .380ACP. Though a handful, they've even gotten the .40 S&W to be available in a pocket gun.

If I wanted a pocket gun, it'd definitely be i a 9mm over a .380. Just my opinion of course, but .380 pocket guns will soon be overlooked in favor of 9mm pocket pistols. Bigger caliber, same size package = FTW.

[BaronW]

Keep in mind that a .380 won't always have less perceived recoil than a 9mm. From what I understand, a lot of .380s use straight blowback instead of a browning lockup, resulting in stiffer felt recoil, making them less shootable than a 9mm of the same weight.

[CalNRA]

if Seecamp would just hurry up and get the LWS380 certified, it is the ultimate 380 in my book.

[STAGE 2]

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with a .380. All handgun calibers are anemic when compared to rifle rounds, but no one is advocating carrying a rifle around. Don't listen to this nonsense about how there is some huge deficiency between this and a 9mm. There are plenty of instances of people being shot multiple times with 9mm and larger without stopping them. There is no magic bullet.

Placement is what matters. If you do your part, then the gun will do its. It doesn't matter whether its .32, .380 or anything else.

[WolfMansDad]

If the barrel is long enough, like a ppk's, then the .380 has fine ballistics. For that matter, so does the .32acp. If you are using a super short barrel, like on a Seecamp, then I would question the efficacy of the round in either caliber.

I don't, however, like ppk's in .380. The recoil is kind of sharp and unpleasant. The glock 26 (in 9mm) is about the same size and a lot easier to shoot.

[tatsuosan1964]

I have a Kel-Tec P11 stainless in 9mm which is as small, if not smaller than a PPKS in .380. It is definately lighter with it's polymer frame. I would never consider the .380 unless it was much smaller than the small 9mm's out there. Granted the P11's are not on the safe list and not as easy to find but a Glock 26, 27, or 32 are not much larger and pack a much bigger bang than the .380. Weight is a whole different issue as my P11 is 6.5ounces lighter fully loaded than my G27 loaded.

[BigDogatPlay]

I picked up a SiG P230 second hand several years ago to use as a back up gun. Accuracy and reliability have always been excellent. I bought ten boxes of PMC hardball for practice and a couple boxes of Hydra-Shocks for carry ammo when I took delivery. Keeping an eye out for sales at on line resellers I've kept a good supply of ammo about circulating through. Since I've left the street I keep it in the nightstand along with an extra mag.

The ammo is a little pricier than it probably should be, what isn't these days, but it's a good shooter and a handy size for both me and the Mrs. I've never considered any handgun to be "underpowered" if I put the rounds where they need to be to get the job done. With nice, fresh Hydra-Shocks stoked up I figure if I get a couple close to the bad guy's pump he's not going to be interested in keeping up the fight.