Handgun effective range for self defense/combat?

[theneko]

I can easily hit 6" plates at 50 yards wirth my Kahr PM9 so barrel length is not that big a deal. As others have said, self defense distances are typically closer to 5-7 yards but practicing out to 25 yards never hurts. A longer barrel gives you more sight radius but a 3" gun will do its part to 50 or 100 yards if you practice.

[speedrrracer]

just guessing -- someone shooting at you from 20 yards away and all you have is a small pistol?

Ah, duh? (....not trying to be a penasaurus but) I didn't think he mean't someone throwing rocks.

He? Dude, you posted the statement:
"I'm just curious what circumstances you imagine being in that will require a small pistol for self defense at or past 20 yards?".
Do you refer to yourself in the third person now like some NBA star?

I'm just trying to imagine what kind of circumstances could bring about the need to make a defensive shot at 20+ yards.

I think the posters in this thread are clear on that, and based on the number of replies (including my own, at the top of this post), there are many such circumstances which have actually happened in the real world.

[therealnickb]

...not bagging on anyone, just trying to understand the thinking here...

Carson City IHOP for example? Or the guy shooting at on coming traffic in L.A. a week or so ago, someone attempting to throw a Molotov Cocktail at your inhabited home(ala recent L.A. and Sacramento arsonists), etc...

....next step in the logic path for me. (I'm assuming the OP is not LE by his question BTW) If it's not SELF defense, you'll have a tough time in CA.

During the random shootings in populated areas, you'll either be in the mix or not. Shooting it out from 60+ feet away? I'm not seeing the scenario for non LE.

I suppose you could randomly see an arsonist sneaking up to your home. If you caught him at the 20 yard+ range and he ignored your warning to stop, maybe you'd be justified. Maybe. But how would you know what his intentions were until he threw something? What if he was a dumb kid and threw a flaming bag of dog crap at you and you dropped him from 20 yards? Good luck with that defense.

If you're worried about riots, a pistol is not the answer anyway. IMO (That's the main reason I asked.)

[Common]

Why is everyone making it an either or choice. In every case I think the best response is Evade AND Defend.

I also request everyone who posted that prosecution will get you for defending yourself when the threat is 25 yards away; please post a documented account of this happening as well as the law prohibiting self defense past 25 yards.

Last time I checked I don't run faster than a bullet. Unless it is a Silver Bullet That cool crisp refreshing taste that only comes from a deep down aquafier in Colorado

[DannyInSoCal]

25 yards is definitely doable with a sub compact nine with some practice. but as said above you engage a target at 25 yards in "self defense" the prosecution will eat you alive. you should really practice 5-10 yards as that seems to cover most self defense stuff. for self defense you should also practice pulling from a concealed holster.. that's i think the most difficult part to master. just my two cents though..

If someone shoots at me from 25 yards away -

I'm not going to wait until they advance closer.

I'm going DRT them...

[Striker]

Hey guys, I just bought a sub compact xD 9, but thinking about what I should get next between getting a compact (4") or sub compact gun(3"-3.5"). Are there any other reasons to get a subcompact over a compact aside from concealability? Thinking about a Glock 23, G27, xD40 4", or G30SF.


I've been reading most people say that handguns aren't practical past 20-25 yards and it'd be better to use a rifle for longer distances. I've read that most shootings occur 5-7 yards, but I'd like to be able to shoot further.

What is the effective range of a full sized pistol 5"?
4"?
3"?

Of course, I've seen Hickok45 shoot 230 yards with both the Glock 23 and 27, but what about an average shooter?

Thanks

Realistically speaking or theoretically speaking? Hickok 45 isn't getting shot at when he makes that shot and he isn't moving and neither is the target. You can cite gun games, bullseye shooting etc, so to say the possibilities. However, the target isn't shooting back at you and it isn't running in those scenarios. Most likely you'll be moving, he'll be moving and you won't get clear shots at full size body. So, really, probably 25 yards or so. Not to say that if you need to take a shot that's further away, you shouldn't. Of course you should if you need to, but a realistic combat distance with a handgun is 25 yards and in. If you're carrying a Jframe Smith, figure that's really pushing the distance. I would say half that is realistic in a gun that small for A zone hits at speed and at speed is the third qualifier.

Moving, two way shooting range and speed can change everything when it has to do with accuracy. That's why you see guys running different drills, to plan for things that can go wrong or change in a gunfight. You can't spar, so you run as many different drills as you can.

[therealnickb]

He? Dude, you posted the statement:
"I'm just curious what circumstances you imagine being in that will require a small pistol for self defense at or past 20 yards?".
Do you refer to yourself in the third person now like some NBA star?



I think the posters in this thread are clear on that, and based on the number of replies (including my own, at the top of this post), there are many such circumstances which have actually happened in the real world.

"HE" being the OP. As I wrote, I didn't think HE was referring to any situation but some one shooting at him from 20+ yards. Maybe he lives by Brett Farve or Roger Clemens and he's worried about rock fight, but I'd doubt it.

I was just trying to understand what circumstances he thought someone would be trying to shoot him from 20+ yards AND him wanting a pistol to return fire.

[mif_slim]

Why do people think force on force is always the answer? Just because you have a gun doesnt mean you engage any threat....

With that said, most engagement for real Self-Defense would be 3-7 yards. Anything beyond that would be chance. If you can hit COM at 15 yards, you'll most likely miss most at the same distance in a SHTF situation.

Compact is just for more comfortable carry and easier to conceal, other then that...its preference.

[AAShooter]

The whole concept of using a firearm for self defense and the appropriate distances dramatically change when an automobile is introduced. Whether they are trying to run you down or shoot at you while driving by, much longer distances can easily present themselves.

[therealnickb]

Why is everyone making it an either or choice. In every case I think the best response is Evade AND Defend.

I also request everyone who posted that prosecution will get you for defending yourself when the threat is 25 yards away; please post a documented account of this happening as well as the law prohibiting self defense past 25 yards.

Last time I checked I don't run faster than a bullet. Unless it is a Silver Bullet That cool crisp refreshing taste that only comes from a deep down aquafier in Colorado

I guess I'd ask it the other way too. How many private citizens have ever actually had to fire in self defense at that distance?

Even if the DA gives you a pass, you'll probably be in civil court in CA.

But still. I was looking for a specific concern from the OP. Trying to find the "right tool for the job" if you will.

[speedrrracer]

If it's not SELF defense, you'll have a tough time in CA.

Agreed, and you may well have a tough time anyways.

During the random shootings in populated areas, you'll either be in the mix or not. Shooting it out from 60+ feet away? I'm not seeing the scenario for non LE.

If someone is shooting at you from more than 25 yards, you will of course want to take cover. What if there is no cover close by (or, even if you find cover, and cower behind it without returning fire, the shooter simply advances on you until your cover is no longer effective)?

In this situation, I don't see how you can raise a question about firing a handgun in defense from more than 25 yards. It's the classic sniper-in-the-tower scenario (e.g., Charles Whitman at UT Austin). Another clear example is mentioned above, in PRCABR4Christ's post.

I hope that helps you see what many of us are talking about.

[therealnickb]

If someone is shooting at you from more than 25 yards, you will of course want to take cover. What if there is no cover close by (or, even if you find cover, and cower behind it without returning fire, the shooter simply advances on you until your cover is no longer effective)?

In this situation, I don't see how you can raise a question about firing a handgun in defense from more than 25 yards. It's the classic sniper-in-the-tower scenario (e.g., Charles Whitman at UT Austin). Another clear example is mentioned above, in PRCABR4Christ's post.

I hope that helps you see what many of us are talking about.

Thanks. Still wondering about the OP's thoughts.

I would definately take cover as you mentioned in the first part. If someone is firing at me, I'll return it. It just seems like such a crazy mathematically improbably situation to me.

BUT, If plan A is using your pistol to trade fire with tower sniper, you really need a new plan.

[Shenaniguns]

....next step in the logic path for me. (I'm assuming the OP is not LE by his question BTW) If it's not SELF defense, you'll have a tough time in CA.

During the random shootings in populated areas, you'll either be in the mix or not. Shooting it out from 60+ feet away? I'm not seeing the scenario for non LE.

I suppose you could randomly see an arsonist sneaking up to your home. If you caught him at the 20 yard+ range and he ignored your warning to stop, maybe you'd be justified. Maybe. But how would you know what his intentions were until he threw something? What if he was a dumb kid and threw a flaming bag of dog crap at you and you dropped him from 20 yards? Good luck with that defense.

If you're worried about riots, a pistol is not the answer anyway. IMO (That's the main reason I asked.)

You keep calling these events "Random" yet they have happened recently and in areas I'm in. You might want to read up on our laws instead of just assuming things:

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

Just an FYI Arson would be a forcible felony if I believed it was an imminent threat to my family or anyone in my home.


Regarding riots, handguns worked fine for those Koreans during the L.A. riots and I have my handgun with my 24/7 unlike my AR.

[Shenaniguns]

Why do people think force on force is always the answer? Just because you have a gun doesnt mean you engage any threat....

With that said, most engagement for real Self-Defense would be 3-7 yards. Anything beyond that would be chance. If you can hit COM at 15 yards, you'll most likely miss most at the same distance in a SHTF situation.

Compact is just for more comfortable carry and easier to conceal, other then that...its preference.

1. Quote somebody if you're claiming someone said that you should engage any threat, I don't see anyone saying that.

2. The second bolded part makes no sense.



And nobody gets to choose what distance, time of day, weather or when a life or death situation occurs. That's why many train for distances and scenarios beyond what's typically encountered.

[Shenaniguns]

Thanks. Still wondering about the OP's thoughts.

I would definately take cover as you mentioned in the first part. If someone is firing at me, I'll return it. It just seems like such a crazy mathematically improbably situation to me.


.

You're just being closed minded about the subject. Just because you don't understand it, does not mean it hasn't or won't happen.