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How much Lube to apply

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  • guitargeak99
    Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 213

    How much Lube to apply

    A long read here: I have read many threads and opinions on gun lurication - which product and how much. I know that there are many of you who are very knowledgable on this subject.
    For what it's worth, I decided to post the opinion of a highly respected gunsmith (Iowegan) that frequents the Ruger Forum -

    "Hey guys ... let's get back to basic mechanics 101. There is no load bearing pressure on a pistol slide ... only a backward and forward motion. The amount of friction between the slide and frame is almost nonexistent. If you don't believe it ... just remove your recoil spring and see how easy the slide moves with no lubrication at all. If the slide had upward, downward, or side pressure then it wouldn't move easily and I could see a reason for lubricant ... but that just isn't the case. For some reason, people tend to think guns are like axle bearings and need grease or oil ... they don't and in fact lubrication is often counterproductive. For blued guns, you do need a very token amount of surface oil to prevent rust .... maybe for stainless guns too if they are subjected to a moist environment .... but you don't need a bunch of oil or grease for lubrication.

    You can use any lubricant you want and as much as you want ... your gun, your money, but here's what I recommend. Place a tiny dot of gun oil on each slide rail. Use a clean patch and distribute the oil over the top and bottom rails leaving a very thin film ... dry to the touch. That's all the lubricant you need and your gun will last much longer using this method.

    Here's why: With the exception of Desert Eagles, all other pistols are either straight blow back or delayed blow back operated. That means some of the pressure in the barrel is used to thrust the slide or bolt back. Along with the pressure blowing the slide or bolt back, you also get a considerable amount of powder residue that finds its way into every nook and cranny inside the pistol, to include the slide rails. Any surface that is "wet" with oil and especially grease, will attract powder residue. Powder residue is made up of soot, unburned powder flakes, and burned powder. Soot will get the gun dirty but is not abrasive ... not an issue. Burned powder is made up of very abrasive carbon particles and when mixed with oil or grease, it forms a mixture much like lapping compound. Unburned powder flakes are also very abrasive. So, each time the slide it operated, the abrasive sludge wears the rails just as if you applied lapping compound to them. In time, it will take its toll on wear.

    Proof: Having been a gunsmith for over 30 years, I got many guns in the shop with excessive wear and with rare exceptions, it was always contributed to excessive oil or grease. Pistols that were basically run "dry" would last forever. My own Series 70 Colt Govt Model has over 60,000 rounds of hardball down the pipe and after 35 years, it is still tighter than many new guns. I did have to replace a barrel after 50k rounds but that was because the rifling got so thin it wouldn't group well. I never used grease at all and only used a tiny drop of oil as mentioned above.

    Yes, polymer frame Glocks do have steel inserts in the frame's slide rail. There is a .4" insert on the front and rear (both sides) of the 4 3/4" frame rail. What does that tell you? If the slide rails were prone to wear, don't you think the inserts would be the full length of the 4 3/4" frame rail? When Glocks were first introduced to the US market, potential customers were afraid of the polymer frame so Glock did a grueling torture test with several 9mm Mod 17 guns. Before the test, each frame and slide were measured and documented. Each gun was fired 12,500 rounds without being cleaned or serviced in any way. At the end of the 12.5 k test, all the pistols were field stripped and the barrels, slides, and frames were swapped so no one gun had the origional parts. Another 12,500 rounds were fired in each gun, again with no cleaning or service. At the end of the test, all guns were still working perfect and were measured again. There was no appreciable wear in any of them. What does this tell you? If a Glock with a total slide bearing surface of .8" can pass this extreme test, do you really think lubrication is necessary in a pistol with a full length slide rail?

    Polymer frame pistols without steel inserts are indeed "self lubricating". This doesn't mean there's a little hidden oil can squirting on the rails ... it means the dry surface of polymer is slick enough where it acts like it had oil on it. If you oil or grease a polymer frame, likely it will reduce life expectancy just like a steel frame.

    Like I said above ... your gun, your money .... hose your pistol down with goose grease for all I care ... but if you want your pistol to last a lifetime or two .... forget the grease and go very sparingly with the oil. That goes for the internal parts as well."
  • #2
    gatesbox
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2010
    • 1860

    Thanks for posting well written advice, and should probably be part of a sticky dedicated to new pistol or new gun owners (IMO is also true for my lever gun). In my short time on CGN I have seen many questions about lube, and have seen a few wet looking semis at the range, have found that wiping dry after any lube is applied leaves enough for sound function.
    "Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt."

    Comment

    • #3
      skyscraper
      Calguns Addict
      • Feb 2011
      • 5198

      Oh, I was expecting a different sort of "lube" thread

      Comment

      • #4
        skyscraper
        Calguns Addict
        • Feb 2011
        • 5198

        The grease vs oil and sparingly vs heavily coated is like the glock vs 1911 debate. its all about preference. I dont have any problems with my guns that have a good amount of oil on them. THats the first I've heard about the powder residue mixing with the oil to form an abrasive layer....Anyone else agree with this?
        Last edited by skyscraper; 12-29-2011, 7:26 PM.

        Comment

        • #5
          Inkman
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2005
          • 1116

          Originally posted by skyscraper
          The grease vs oil and sparingly vs heavily coated is like the glock vs 1911 debate. its all about preference. I dont have any problems with my guns that have a good amount of oil on them. THats the first I've heard about the powder residue mixing with the oil to form an abrasive layer....Anyone else agree with this?
          Yes.

          Al
          Various 1911s.
          Some revolvers.
          Some rifles.
          Back to owning some of those "polymer" guns.

          They see me rollin'
          They hatin'

          Comment

          • #6
            skyscraper
            Calguns Addict
            • Feb 2011
            • 5198

            Originally posted by Inkman
            Yes.

            Al
            So even if the gun is cleaned after every range trip, this is bad? Is the same true for grease?

            Comment

            • #7
              gorenut
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2010
              • 3072

              Originally posted by skyscraper
              So even if the gun is cleaned after every range trip, this is bad? Is the same true for grease?
              On guns that I run grease on, I definitely make an effort to clean after every range trip. Good thing is, it wipes off very easily. I run most my guns dry, but in a full slide rail, all-steel gun, I like putting Slide Glide. The OP has its points, but just putting on Slide Glide or any other good grease on a gun and you can literally feel the difference. You can't tell me that's not decreasing friction on the rails - yes it collects grime, but as mentioned, I clean after every range trip. On my poly semis, it makes no difference and I run them mostly dry.

              Comment

              • #8
                guitargeak99
                Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 213

                Originally posted by gatesbox
                have seen a few wet looking semis at the range, have found that wiping dry after any lube is applied leaves enough for sound function.
                You know I really don't know if too much lube is bad for a firearm. I have experimented with various lubes and their application. I have found that an overly wet pistol seems to accumulate more "material". Anyway..., I'm still learning - that's why I spend time on this forum.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Inkman
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2005
                  • 1116

                  Originally posted by skyscraper
                  So even if the gun is cleaned after every range trip, this is bad? Is the same true for grease?
                  I use whatever lube/oil i have laying around and i clean my guns often. Just my opinion but i load and shoot with cheap, dirty powder (Bullseye) and after a while the powder builds up and forms gunk which can and does cause guns to have problems. Let it build up and when you clean it, rub the gunk between your fingers. It won't feel silky smooth, but gritty.

                  Does it ruin slide to frame fit? No idea but i do agree it is abrasive. I also don't think MOST shooters (occasional range goers) will ever shoot enough rds to make any difference at all anyway. Just clean your guns and they will be all the better for it.

                  My worthless opinion.

                  Al
                  Various 1911s.
                  Some revolvers.
                  Some rifles.
                  Back to owning some of those "polymer" guns.

                  They see me rollin'
                  They hatin'

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    skyscraper
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 5198

                    Originally posted by gorenut
                    On guns that I run grease on, I definitely make an effort to clean after every range trip. Good thing is, it wipes off very easily. I run most my guns dry, but in a full slide rail, all-steel gun, I like putting Slide Glide. The OP has its points, but just putting on Slide Glide or any other good grease on a gun and you can literally feel the difference. You can't tell me that's not decreasing friction on the rails - yes it collects grime, but as mentioned, I clean after every range trip. On my poly semis, it makes no difference and I run them mostly dry.
                    I dont ever shoot my gun at the range without cleaning it after...even if I only put 40 rounds through them.

                    Originally posted by Inkman
                    I use whatever lube/oil i have laying around and i clean my guns often. Just my opinion but i load and shoot with cheap, dirty powder (Bullseye) and after a while the powder builds up and forms gunk which can and does cause guns to have problems. Let it build up and when you clean it, rub the gunk between your fingers. It won't feel silky smooth, but gritty.

                    Does it ruin slide to frame fit? No idea but i do agree it is abrasive. I also don't think MOST shooters (occasional range goers) will ever shoot enough rds to make any difference at all anyway. Just clean your guns and they will be all the better for it.

                    My worthless opinion.

                    Al
                    Yeah as said above I always clean my guns after shooting them. So while I agree the film is abrasive, I really dont see it ruining the slide/frame fit up even after thousands of rounds. Thanks for the info

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      agent.5
                      Member
                      • May 2005
                      • 252

                      So how many rounds between cleaning are you guys talking about here?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Subotai
                        I need a LIFE!!
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 11289

                        Don't ask Big Jake, he doesn't use lube.
                        RKBA Clock: soap box, ballot box, jury box, cartridge box (Say When!)
                        Free Vespuchia!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          agent.5
                          Member
                          • May 2005
                          • 252

                          Originally posted by skyscraper
                          THats the first I've heard about the powder residue mixing with the oil to form an abrasive layer....Anyone else agree with this?
                          This is Les Baer's suggestion on break-in. Do not disassemble or clean the gun for the first 500 rounds and allow the powder residue mixing with oil to form a polishing compound.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            skyscraper
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 5198

                            Originally posted by agent.5
                            So how many rounds between cleaning are you guys talking about here?
                            Anywhere from 150-250 rounds.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              guitargeak99
                              Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 213

                              Originally posted by agent.5
                              So how many rounds between cleaning are you guys talking about here?
                              I wish I had the discipline that "skyscraper" has - frequent cleaning will definitely prolong the life of a firearm.
                              Nevertheless, I ususally go about 300-500 rounds between cleaning.

                              Comment

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