Advice on "non-legal" gun transfer

[moredes]

Please tell me how the California gun transfer laws work in this situation:

I have a CA ID card. It has my legal, non-CA residence address on it. I have several guns that are not on the CA DOJ approved handgun list. These were purchased after the list was created. Nothing outrageous, all 1911's or clones that just weren't submitted for testing by the manufacturers. I want to bring them with me to sell on my next trip to CA.

I was just told that *new* CA residents had to pay and register them first when they're brought in for the first time, before they could sell them in an FTF transaction. Does this apply to my case? I don't think so. I've used the CA ID before in a CA-FFL'd FTF transaction (the buyer's FFL called the DOJ and came back to us saying, "nothing says the address must be in CA on the CA ID")

Please do not hijack this thread with requests for me to find guns. (this is a semi-serious request; the last time I posted something related to this topic, I got flooded with "please let me know if you have..."). I'm just trying to figure out what the rules are. I may post a "taking-requests" post later, if the legalities can be worked out. Thank you.

Ya'll sure make it tough to bring the good guns to ya.

[metalhead357]

LATE EDIT:
OK-- I have an FFL'r here telling me that this is wrong info (from me, my posts). EDITED as I DO NOT want to pass WRONG INFO... CONTACT a FFL

[moredes]

Thanks, Metalhead, I think that's the answer I'm looking for .

I was more in a puzzlement about this latest 'advice' that I have to register guns I bring before I can sell them. I don't live in CA. However, if I remember correctly, the CA DOJ says that a legal transfer requires the both the seller and the buyer to hold either a legimate CA ID or DL, which I do (the CA ID). There's nothing falsified on my ID; all the info is legit--to that end, it's passed before with a very tentative FFL who checked with DOJ.

Thank you.

[metalhead357]

LATE EDIT:
OK-- I have an FFL'r here telling me that this is wrong info (from me, my posts). EDITED as I DO NOT want to pass WRONG INFO... CONTACT a FFL

[Ericthenorse]

If you are not a CA resident, you can't sell anything that is not on "the list" to anyone in CA.... The Private Party transactions are only good from one CA resident to another... You said you wanted to bring some on your next VISIT... that would be illegal (importattion of something r' nother..) If you become a CA resident (live here for the right amount of time) then you can bring your guns with you, register the pistols with the DOJ, and sell them... You can only do this after your residency becomes official... In a nutshell, unless you live here, you can't sell an off list handgun to a CA resident...

[metalhead357]

LATE EDIT:
OK-- I have an FFL'r here telling me that this is wrong info (from me, my posts). EDITED as I DO NOT want to pass WRONG INFO... CONTACT a FFL

[s281c]

LOL! Now I'm arguing this on another thread too. Californians buy Out of state guns all the time. If its USED then it is a PPT (Private party transfer) and not a FTF PPT if its shipped in. If it is a used gun then it does NOT have to be on the DOJ list...as per
-------------------------------------------------------------

Not to jump in here, but this is not true, if you buy a used handgun from someone out of state it still has to be on the list...........Think buying a used gun from gunbroker or one of the other auction sites, granted a non-ffl can ship the gun to a CA FFL but it still has to be on the aprroved list.

PPT of off list handguns can only be between CA residents.

[s281c]

Please read the top of the site I posted. Private party is exempt. A Used gun by definition is used gun....it is exmpt from the list. A Private party transfer HAS TO proceed through a Cali FFL (unless Antique or C&R - but pistols MUST)......

USED= EXEMPT

PRIVATE PARTY= EXEMPT

WHERE the gun comes from is irrellevant unless it is a NEW GUN.......

That MAy not be what DOJ wants, nor the legislators...but that isn't what state law........... ITS LEGAL TO DO.............At least for "residents".....

Umm I think we're saying the same thing................

If you try to import, or buy, a used handgun from a out of state seller that is not on the safe list you can't.

If a CA resident has a off list handgun that they wish to sell and you wish to buy then you can do a PPT with that person.

[RHT447]

Perhaps this will help clarify things.

What s218c posted is correct:

PPT of off list handguns can only be between CA residents.

Any handgun (new or used) being sold by a non-resident of California to a resident in not PPT sale, and so can only be run through the DROS system as a dealer sale. Under the dealer sale option, the DROS system only allows sales of handguns from the approved list. Really sucks because it shuts Kalifornia buyers out of a big chunk of the used handgun market.

[metalhead357]

LATE EDIT:
OK-- I have an FFL'r here telling me that this is wrong info (from me, my posts). EDITED as I DO NOT want to pass WRONG INFO... CONTACT a FFL

[Ericthenorse]

Metalhead.... you are wrong.... Only CA residents are allowed to sell Non listed pistols to other residents.... And only used guns can go through PPT(since all new guns must come from an FFL)... If a gun is not on the list, it can not be brought into the state for sale... It doesn't mater if you ship it , or carry it in your trunk.... The DOJ has EVRYTHING to do with this since when you do a PPT, it still has to be run through the DOJ website, and held at the FFL untill they say you can have it... If the gun is not registered to a CA resident, and being sold to a CA resident, the DOJ computer will make all kinds of noise and wave litle flags.....
The ONLY way to legally bring a non listed pistol into this state is to move here.... Then you submit your pistols to the DOJ, and they take unbearably long to tell you wheather or not you will be allowed to have them here...(no threaded barrels, no detachible mags in front of the grip, etc..) Then, after you get them OK'd, and registered into your name, thenafter waiting a while longer (untill you have attained permanent residency status) you may sell your pistols PPT through an FFL....

If it is not on the list, it may not be imported for sale.....Rifles are a different story.....

[CalExile]

If you are not a CA resident, you can't sell anything that is not on "the list" to anyone in CA.... The Private Party transactions are only good from one CA resident to another... You said you wanted to bring some on your next VISIT... that would be illegal (importattion of something r' nother..) If you become a CA resident (live here for the right amount of time) then you can bring your guns with you, register the pistols with the DOJ, and sell them... You can only do this after your residency becomes official... In a nutshell, unless you live here, you can't sell an off list handgun to a CA resident...

What about a legal FL resident on PCS military orders to San Diego? I don't plan to become a Cal resident while on active duty, I wonder if there is a provision to allow me to sell an off-list pistol to a Cal resident.

[grammaton76]

I'm also wondering about folks who have officially-recognized dual residency status (two states on their income tax statements).

Would they be able to buy in one of their states and PPT in the other?

Obviously this could not be done very often or they'd be accused of running a business without an FFL, but I'm just wondering...

[monkey]

I'm also wondering about folks who have officially-recognized dual residency status (two states on their income tax statements).

Would they be able to buy in one of their states and PPT in the other?

Obviously this could not be done very often or they'd be accused of running a business without an FFL, but I'm just wondering...

I believe this is perfectly legal. Buying an off-list handgun in FL while in FL, then bringing it with you to your other residence in CA and registering it. I would however be very careful about selling it too quickly or too often. If it appears you're doing this to circumvent the Handgun Safety Law, they'll nail you. It's also a federal unlicensed dealer beef if you sell too many guns too quickly OR buy guns and immediately resell them.

[AidanN20]

Heres a question, instead of transfering the handgun from out of state through a dealer, there is a "voluntary registration form" available for people who purchased a handgun the incorrect way without going through a dealer. I have a DOJ letter specifically stating that if you purchase a handgun from another person and you didnt follow the correct procedure of using an FFL then there will be no penalty or prosecution by the DOJ if (without reason of being charged/prosecuted for it) it is voluntarily registered using this form.

So if I have an off-list handgun and just voluntary register it then they will accept it and be able to register it in my name? hmmmmmm
You can just use this form:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

In summary, here are quick reference tables of CA requirements for handgun and long gun sales and transfers:

http://www.topgunfirearms.com/newcagun.htm