Looking for 'Smart Gun" Info/Input

[flip7]

Hi,

I did a search here, but did not see much. I will do the web/google
work too - but figured that there are a bunch of people here at Calguns
that either have links, pdfs, white papers, opinions and just about
anything else that would help me get up to speed on 'smart' or
'personalized' guns - whats been done, pros and cons, etc.

I am not for or against this idea as long as the guns WORK when they
need to and are available to 'the people' as they are now - or better hopefully. This idea is going to come - so getting it right is important.

The reason I am asking is that I do product design for a living here in Silicon
Valley (not guns) - and would like to think about coming up with something
that really works for the user (us) so that we do not end up with something
that sucks - being forced on us.

I put this in handguns since that seems the best place.
Please respond with any help or input you have on the topic.
thanks
-Phil

[unusedusername]

As far as I know, this is the only reliable smart user identifying gun that "exists".

Consider that a flashlight is like $5, and a gunlight is at least $100 for a reliable one.

A biometric reader with greater then 99.999% accuracy is +- $200, meaning one that would work on a firearm assuming the same cost inflation would cost $4000 when produced at scale if it were to exist at all.

Edit to add: you can get a REALLY nice safe for 4 grand...

[starsnuffer]

Do you use a smart screwdriver?

How about a smart hammer?

Are you writing checks with a smart pen?

A gun is a tool, it's going to do what the user wants it to do. Go invent artificial intelligence first, and then you can come back with the argument that you are ready to replace the idiot behind the tool.

-W

[billybob_jcv]

This is a terrible idea and I would advise any LEO forced to use one of these weapons to find a different employer.

Consider this: You are grappling with a bad guy in a mud puddle. Your hands are covered in mud - and suddenly the bad guy reaches in his coat for a pistol. Will my biometric sensor-controlled "smart" gun allow me to draw and fire? If it uses a ring that I wear as the RFID key, will the electronics still function after the pistol has been dropped in the mud? Or is it only law-abiding civilians that will be forced to use this preventive device that gives the bad guys yet another advantage?

[flip7]

A smart tool - that is an on target and funny point of view.

The Judge Dredd 'lawgiver' is not one that I thought of - thanks.

Maybe the 'smart gun' is too broad. Maybe just features make sense.
-button to call 911?
-round counter to tell you when to change springs?
-it takes a picture when it fires if you set it that way?
-cloak of invisibility button (just kidding)?

-do any added features make sense?

[Kodemonkey]

Smith and Wesson was working on one at some point. It required the "authenticated user" to wear a ring that had a RFID device on it.

There are so many problems with something like this (like how long it takes to identify friend or foe, electronics failure, ruggedness) that I never see it taking hold.

[ocmsrzr]

Anybody else read "Smartgun", think cyperpunk and get excited.?

[esartori]

how about a "smart safe" which has a lot of items in it? I would NEVER want that kind of technology (read: extra chance of malfunction when needed most) in a fire arm. I believe firearms should follow the KISS principle. Let your safe be smart.

[billybob_jcv]

[flip7]

The home invasion video was great .

I think KISS is the way to go, but in light of the fact the someone
is going to come up with this stuff, and it might be crap, and then it
might get regulated/mandated, I think it is time well spent to find something that isn't crap - or if after all the brainstorming, invention, and work is done
and there still isn't a good workable solution - maybe then this issue
can be closed.

Any other simple ideas that might make sense?

[ocmsrzr]

Microstamping-think about it.

[JaMail]

id like one.. with a 3 year old in the house, id love to have an RFID use gun. I dont see this as any different than car alarms with the remote lock feature, its an option that some people could use if they chose to. If it was a requirement imposed by the government then of course I would be opposed.

.. It all gets down to dependability. The S&W version sounds pretty interesting.

[unusedusername]

Retrofitting electronics onto firearms, especially handguns, is extremely difficult and expensive.

The internals of a handgun do not have much extra space for electronics. The internal parts go from very cold to very hot very quickly, which is not very good for batteries. Guns get wet, muddy and covered with ice and still need to work. Oh yeah, and don't forget about recoil.

The types of electronics that can handle this are usually referred to as "hardened" parts. The downside of these parts is that they are obscenely expensive, usually they weigh quite a bit, and they are almost always at least 2 generations behind the "cutting edge".

There are a few interesting toys being put together for guns, but I'll wait until they get good enough for real users before I start to play with them. So far we have lights, lasers, and sights. I've seen scope cameras and round counters, but neither one seems really a benefit over just not having them even without factoring the cost of the electronics (which is why you don't see special forces with practically infinite budgets using them).

What is needed for a electronic part to become popular is for it to give some real benefit over having a non-electronic part. Compare red-dot sights vs irons on a rifle or irons vs a laser on pistols. At the same time it needs to be be realistically build-able in a price range that a customer can afford.

Right now I don't see electronics solving any real firearms issues that do not already have products on the market.

The "smart gun" idea is all about access. Access can be solved with a lockbox in a more dependable and cheaper way then it can be solved with hi-tech.

Oh yeah, and I'm a programmer as my day job, so I may actually know a little bit about tech

[Bug Splat]

As an engineer myself, I fully understand your desire to look into this but I can tell you now you are going to hit a brick wall in the gun community. We do not want our firearms changed. In general we fight to prevent such things as "smart guns" and "Micro-stamping". While its pleasing to those who worry about gun safety its a direct attack to those who actually use firearms and know that the only unsafe point is the human. Giving control to technology to decide who uses a firearm is very very scary because another human created that tech. What happens when that creator decides to lock everyone out. If I know one thing from being in the tech field its the hackers(crackers) are far smarter than the people building this stuff. A bad guy would love the ability to shutdown all firearms in a home before he goes in to rape the women.

There is nothing wrong with a firearm in its current state. If anything needs to change its working on educating people on proper firearms safety and how to properly store your firearms so they are not stolen.