LEO Only Guns...

[billybob_jcv]

Whenever I go into an LGS, I invariably see a significant number of used Glocks, Sigs, S&W, etc that are marked "LEO Only" because of the hi-cap magazines or off-roster, etc.

This got me wondering...

Does the typical LGS really do a significant amount of LEO sales? Most of the LEOs I know are not recreational shooters, although I do not know whether they purchase personal firearms - I suppose they could be. Is LEO personal purchases a viable target market for the California LGS?

[lawaia]

Many agencies allow LEO to purchase the duty weapon of their choice.

[JeremyS]

Or, I would guess more commonly, LEOs purchasing them as an off duty or backup weapon of their choice. I think it's more common for the agency to dictate duty weapon, but leave it more open for off duty/BUG (sometimes there's an approved list rather than totally open). ...and then for recreational reasons as well, of course...

There are some other roster exempt parties also.

...and maybe they have them up for sale online like via GunBroker or AuctionArms? I know the shops get trade-ins from people who do not want to do PPT and do not want to put it on consignment and wait for a sale. If the gun has fallen off the roster and the FFL actually purchases it for their own stock, it now cannot be sold to a non-exempt person even though it could have been via PPT... so off it goes into the LEO cabinet.

[billybob_jcv]

I guess I'm thinking that if I was an LGS, I would be trying to figure out how to configure those guns for SSE or swapping in a 10 round mag, or something to get those guns moving out of my inventory. Maybe some of them have relationships with out of state dealers and they can trade inventory. That's what I would do. It doesn't do a business any good to have inventory it can't move.

Stupid roster.

[Bug Splat]

Didn't know MFG's still marked their mags LEO only. Back in the Clinton days (and half way through Bush) LEO mags were worth their weight in gold. I paid $90 for each G17 mag at one point. MFG stamped them so LEO's could ID new standard-cap mags which were off limits to the public. When the ban ended (in 2004 I think) MFG's went back to not marking their mags. I have not seen a LEO marked mag since.

[tacticalcity]

I guess I'm thinking that if I was an LGS, I would be trying to figure out how to configure those guns for SSE or swapping in a 10 round mag, or something to get those guns moving out of my inventory. Maybe some of them have relationships with out of state dealers and they can trade inventory. That's what I would do. It doesn't do a business any good to have inventory it can't move.

Stupid roster.

I agree, dumb move on their part. A lot of gun shop owners have very big egos. I would imagine that is part of it. They like the idea of being able to offer guns their ordinary customers cannot buy. Never mind that if they offered SSE or even lower capacity magazines (for the on roster stuff) they would make more money.

[GoingQuiet]

Didn't know MFG's still marked their mags LEO only. Back in the Clinton days (and half way through Bush) LEO mags were worth their weight in gold. I paid $90 for each G17 mag at one point. MFG stamped them so LEO's could ID new standard-cap mags which were off limits to the public. When the ban ended (in 2004 I think) MFG's went back to not marking their mags. I have not seen a LEO marked mag since.

They don't still mark their mags.

[zfields]

seems dumb. Maybe there also the same guys on gunbroker trying to pawn off used guns at retail++ prices.

[Munk]

Didn't know MFG's still marked their mags LEO only. Back in the Clinton days (and half way through Bush) LEO mags were worth their weight in gold. I paid $90 for each G17 mag at one point. MFG stamped them so LEO's could ID new standard-cap mags which were off limits to the public. When the ban ended (in 2004 I think) MFG's went back to not marking their mags. I have not seen a LEO marked mag since.

Heh, hit up the gunshows, they still have tables and tables full of them (in other states).

[billybob_jcv]

Didn't know MFG's still marked their mags LEO only. Back in the Clinton days (and half way through Bush) LEO mags were worth their weight in gold. I paid $90 for each G17 mag at one point. MFG stamped them so LEO's could ID new standard-cap mags which were off limits to the public. When the ban ended (in 2004 I think) MFG's went back to not marking their mags. I have not seen a LEO marked mag since.

I wasn't talking about marked mags - I was talking about guns in their display cases that have price tags that say "LEO Only". For example, these:

http://gretasusedguns.blogspot.com/2011/10/beretta-92fs.html

http://gretasusedguns.blogspot.com/2011/09/glock-22-2gen.html

[greybeard]

Well in this case, they tell you why, the 10+ mags. I suspect, the dealer does not want to invest the cost of 10 rounds. They are not going to be able to mark up the price to cover their outlay for the mags. Especially something like HK mags.

[scootle]

Actually, I think there might be some mandate that if a displayed gun is off-roster or otherwise not available for "civilian" sale, they have to be marked as such.

e.g. if you go to Valkyrie Arms in Milpitas, just about everything there is marked LEO only even though they are a 07 FFL that can do SSE sales to civvies.

More likely than not, it's often something done just to make lawyers happy and/or investigators if/when the DOJ audits the LGS.

[billybob_jcv]

So - you think if I asked them to swap the hi-cap mag for a 10-round mag, that they would and could sell me the on-roster gun marked LEO only?

For example, if a dealer is displaying this hi-cap 92FS as LEO Only:

http://gretasusedguns.blogspot.com/2011/10/beretta-92fs.html

And there are several different 92FS guns on the roster:

92FS / Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.9" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Black Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 5/22/2012
92FS Brigadier / Blue Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Brigadier Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Compact Type M / Blue Steel Pistol 4.3" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Inox Lasergrips / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/18/2012
92FS OD Green / Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.9" 9mm 12/18/2012
92FS Type M9A1 / Steel, Alloy Pistol 5" 9mm 12/14/2012
92FS Vertec Inox / Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.7" 9mm 7/16/2012
92FS Vertec Inox Lasergrips / Steel, Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.52" 9mm 12/18/2012

Shouldn't one of those roster listings be close enough to cover the 92FS that is for sale if the hi-cap mag is swapped for a 10-round?

Would this sort of swap be legal for an FFL03, or would he need to be an FFL07 and do the full SSE?

[360PA]

The listing cannot be close enough. it has to be exactly the model listed, that's why there is even a finish listed. Many manufacturers even have CA specific product codes. That's why 07FFL's do the SSE, there is a market for that since many guns people in CA want are not on "The List".

[greybeard]

So - you think if I asked them to swap the hi-cap mag for a 10-round mag, that they would and could sell me the on-roster gun marked LEO only?

For example, if a dealer is displaying this hi-cap 92FS as LEO Only:

http://gretasusedguns.blogspot.com/2011/10/beretta-92fs.html

And there are several different 92FS guns on the roster:

92FS / Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.9" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Black Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 5/22/2012
92FS Brigadier / Blue Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Brigadier Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Compact Type M / Blue Steel Pistol 4.3" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/31/2012
92FS Inox Lasergrips / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm 12/18/2012
92FS OD Green / Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.9" 9mm 12/18/2012
92FS Type M9A1 / Steel, Alloy Pistol 5" 9mm 12/14/2012
92FS Vertec Inox / Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.7" 9mm 7/16/2012
92FS Vertec Inox Lasergrips / Steel, Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.52" 9mm 12/18/2012

Shouldn't one of those roster listings be close enough to cover the 92FS that is for sale if the hi-cap mag is swapped for a 10-round?

Would this sort of swap be legal for an FFL03, or would he need to be an FFL07 and do the full SSE?

I have brought LEO guns without the mag or with 10 rounds off dealers before. I have always seen the problem as being, who pays for the 10 rounders or what discount if not mags.