Competitive Handgun Shooting

[RippSpeed]

I would stay with a beretta because its a solid pistol and pretty accurate pistol...

and I agree with buying a reloading equipment. And buy Dillon their the best in quality and customer service ... No one beats their warranty...

Since your in production just load fart load because your pretty much all scored minor power factor anyway. You can get faster by playing with loads and having loads that have alittle to no recoil and still cycle the pistol... Wish I was loading when I had my HK P30 and made some soft shooting loads...

[mackey]

Idpa is slightly different. Try it see if you like it. The biggest difference I've found is all shots need to be done behind cover, mag retention (unless mag is empty so you'll need practice your tac reloads), and round count is usually a lot less

[HighLander51]

Idpa is slightly different. Try it see if you like it. The biggest difference I've found is all shots need to be done behind cover, mag retention (unless mag is empty so you'll need practice your tac reloads), and round count is usually a lot less

And concealment, of course, and sequential and tactical priority. While IDPA is popularly believed to be tactical, it is, in fact, opposite of USPSA in rules. After all it was invented by one of the IPSC great shooters, Bill Wilson.

http://www.frontsightmagazine.org/archives/FSMAR06featuresm.pdf

although you can shoot USPSA from concealment if you want to, there is no rule against it. Here is my kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJFOXCQyApo&feature=BFa&list=UL0t3wLNuWmpM&lf=mfu_in_order

http://www.youtube.com/user/9x45#p/u/47/6-vxDlTmAuU

[icedevil]

In case you have any doubt that you can be successful with a double action gun check out this video of Ernest Langdon on his way to winning a major IDPA match with one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBKacq8zMzQ&NR=1

[eldonvieira]

I started shooting uspsa for about 2 years started with a Taurus 24/7 pro I just switched to a para in limited you will know when the time comes to make any changes. Just shoot have fun and get better

[JTROKS]

You'll know when you need to upgrade. For me sights were the first I noticed. A nice clean rear with a sharp vertical post or a fiber optic front. I'm not sure if you will be staying in Production class once you upgrade, but do pay attention to what you can do to your pistol in production class.

[choprzrul]

Does your 92 have a nice trigger? If you have a good DA pull and the SA is crisp you'll be fine. I primarily shoot my CZ75 and the DA/SA transition is not an issue - Angus has done the trigger on my gun so it's VERY nice.

If the grip angle and ergos of the 92 work for you just make sure the trigger is nice and shoot it. If you prefer the 1911 grip angle then change - the M&P is a good platform.

I have a pretty good trigger on mine. Lightened springs, but just heavy enough to still ignite CCI primers reliably. Several times I realized that the DA shots were on target, so no issues there.

I think that I will look at sight improvements within the Production class framework.

.

[Voo]

Based upon the responses above, can I get some focused analysis:

1. I've done the hammer spring, slide spring, and trigger spring conversion on the 92. Any thing else that I should do to help?.

-no idea, never used a 92 in competition.. ymmv

2. Reloading is covered via Hornady Lock & Load progressive. Load recommendation? Currently loading 124 Berry's round nose ahead of 4.6gr of Universal..

- Find a RELIABLE load (oal, feeding, ejection... power factor) Doesnt matter how soft or light your ammo is if it isn't RELIABLE.
- Shoot what's cheap. An A-zone hit is the same whether FMJ, JHP, or lead..
- Recoil reduction chase. The gains in reducing recoil are MARGINAL. It's your time and effort, but you won't ever hear Master/GM guys talk about tenths of a grain of powder to get the lighter recoil.. At a certain point, it becomes unimportant..

3. The main reason I asked about the M&P is the consistent trigger pull in comparison to the 92's double/single action. Is there anything to be gained there or is the single action of the 92 helpful?
.

- DA pull can be learned and can be softened (springs, polishing..etc) but it's requires more of a concerted effort to learn.

4. I think that I had less than 10 rounds outside of the "A" zone all day. I understand that as I work to reduce my times, my precision will suffer. Where is the balance and how to I know when I should be speeding up or slowing down?
.

- Great question. This is the meat of USPSA. How fast to go? Accuracy vs Speed?

The long and short in PRODUCTION is to shoot around 85-90% of the points available on the stage... This is a very good standard. This means, for ever 2 A zone hits, you can get 1 C. You're on the right track with the idea of sacrificing accuracy for speed.. If you're accuracy sucks, you have very little to work with. People think it's all about trigger speed.. It really isn't.. on the other hand, if you're shooting all A's, then you're probably spending too much time aiming (in regards to Production class).

You saying you "THINK" you had less than 10 rounds isn't concise enough.. It will really behoove you to go and see what your hits were as they're being called out. I'm not talking about arguing or discussing them, but just take a look at where your shots are landing. There's not enough time/patience in a day to go and look at every target, but what I try and do is to remember the hardest shot of 'that' stage and go and examine the target.. It could be a swinger or drop turner or a target that's been placed 30 yards away.. These targets will give you the most feedback on what you need to address..

This topic is realllllly extensive and isn't light reading material. It requires you to understand how scoring and Hit Factor works. For now, go and shoot with accuracy. I really dislike Highlander's "shoot fast until you throw mike's and D's" approach. It is NEVER OK to get D's or Mike's in Production class.. There are already too few points.. Speed is absolutely critical but don't hurl yourself off the cliff.

I would rather you shoot all A's and be slow than shoot D's and Mike's for going to fast. The first method can be tailored for improvement. The second is often reckless and is very difficult to remedy once it becomes habit.

5. To date, USPSA is absolutely the best exercise program!
.

- I would say it dramatically improves your gun handling skills... It does NOT however make you tactically proficient :-)

6. Should I spend the money to become a USPSA member?

- Not necessary, but I like the idea of supporting USPSA. It's a great organization and every bit helps. I'm still a member, although I havnet been active in the last year or so..

7. Should I shoot IDPA also for the practice? Is it like USPSA?
.

- Definitely YES. More shooting is always good :-). Sort of.. It's a watered down version of USPSA

Thanks to all for taking the time to offer advice and knowledge.

.

**Edit**

I went in to the first stage of the day and calmed myself before the timer sounded. No problem, just went to work when the timer sounded. That is where something amazing to me happened. I had engaged the first set of targets and was moving to the second set. I knew that I had to do a mag change while moving, so I thumbed the mag release and then mentally thought to myself "grab another mag". At that point, I realized that the mag was already in my hand and nearly touching the mag well already. Time really slowed at that point as I marveled at how that had happened completely sub-consciously. More than anything, I believe that this experience convinced me that this type of training is very valuable (not to mention it is a real hoot!). .

I dont' get that zen moment.. I tend to forget everything when the buzzer sounds.. At that point, it's "oh..look at the brown targets.. I should probably shoot them"

[Beck1911]

Reloading can reduce your shots a whole lot more then switching guns. You can tweek it to have vertially no recoil and hardly no muzzle rise at the same time more accurate. Honestly the biggest upgrade you can do is reload. You can cut your time/scope dramatically. Since the first procedure is to "ready" yourself, DA/SA trigger shouldn't worry you too much as it should be cocked and ready to rock when the buzzer goes off.

I would concentrate more on aiming and quicker follow up shots then changing the gun to "feel" better. All those come after you pay your USPSA membership dues.

+1 big time on the reloading ammo. Develop just the right load and spring set for your gun.That's how guys with 45's can cycle threw so fast... also mag reloads and holster work. I made soft shooting 45acp for my 1911 and had that "a ha" moment. Borrow some intel you can.

[SuperSet]

From what I heard, Voo has the right formula. Drop 10% of your points and you're balancing speed vs. accuracy. Although, if you could shoot the thing twice as fast with all C's, you're going to come out ahead.

10 targets:

All A's in 20s - 5 x 10 = 50/20. HF = 2.5
All C's in 10s - 3 x 10 = 30/10. HF = 3.0

[JoeinLA]

Is there a calendar of various competitins each weekend? I try to scour the competitin forum, but it seems like there isnt a centralizd calendar....?

[choprzrul]

Is there a calendar of various competitins each weekend? I try to scour the competitin forum, but it seems like there isnt a centralizd calendar....?

If you are in the SLO area, SLOSA has a calender on the RH side of their web site: http://www.slosa.org/

.

[choprzrul]

-no idea, never used a 92 in competition.. ymmv


- Find a RELIABLE load (oal, feeding, ejection... power factor) Doesnt matter how soft or light your ammo is if it isn't RELIABLE.
- Shoot what's cheap. An A-zone hit is the same whether FMJ, JHP, or lead..
- Recoil reduction chase. The gains in reducing recoil are MARGINAL. It's your time and effort, but you won't ever hear Master/GM guys talk about tenths of a grain of powder to get the lighter recoil.. At a certain point, it becomes unimportant..


- DA pull can be learned and can be softened (springs, polishing..etc) but it's requires more of a concerted effort to learn.


- Great question. This is the meat of USPSA. How fast to go? Accuracy vs Speed?

The long and short in PRODUCTION is to shoot around 85-90% of the points available on the stage... This is a very good standard. This means, for ever 2 A zone hits, you can get 1 C. You're on the right track with the idea of sacrificing accuracy for speed.. If you're accuracy sucks, you have very little to work with. People think it's all about trigger speed.. It really isn't.. on the other hand, if you're shooting all A's, then you're probably spending too much time aiming (in regards to Production class).

You saying you "THINK" you had less than 10 rounds isn't concise enough.. It will really behoove you to go and see what your hits were as they're being called out. I'm not talking about arguing or discussing them, but just take a look at where your shots are landing. There's not enough time/patience in a day to go and look at every target, but what I try and do is to remember the hardest shot of 'that' stage and go and examine the target.. It could be a swinger or drop turner or a target that's been placed 30 yards away.. These targets will give you the most feedback on what you need to address..

This topic is realllllly extensive and isn't light reading material. It requires you to understand how scoring and Hit Factor works. For now, go and shoot with accuracy. I really dislike Highlander's "shoot fast until you throw mike's and D's" approach. It is NEVER OK to get D's or Mike's in Production class.. There are already too few points.. Speed is absolutely critical but don't hurl yourself off the cliff.

I would rather you shoot all A's and be slow than shoot D's and Mike's for going to fast. The first method can be tailored for improvement. The second is often reckless and is very difficult to remedy once it becomes habit.


- I would say it dramatically improves your gun handling skills... It does NOT however make you tactically proficient :-)


- Not necessary, but I like the idea of supporting USPSA. It's a great organization and every bit helps. I'm still a member, although I havnet been active in the last year or so..


- Definitely YES. More shooting is always good :-). Sort of.. It's a watered down version of USPSA




I dont' get that zen moment.. I tend to forget everything when the buzzer sounds.. At that point, it's "oh..look at the brown targets.. I should probably shoot them"

Thank you for the informative and helpful posting. Here are my exact hit numbers:

A: 128

B: 2

C: 9

D: 2

.

[Voo]

Thank you for the informative and helpful posting. Here are my exact hit numbers:

A: 128

B: 2

C: 9

D: 2

.

Those numbers look great. It can be misleading, however, without referencing the time. Ex. You shot all A's -but took 3 hours per stage.. :-) Not saying you did this but there needs to be a time component to give it the proper context.

This is where the trickier stuff comes in. It's critical you understand how the scoring works in USPSA. Read up on it. It's not for the faint of heart. It took me MULTIPLE reads to understand what was going on. It's worth it though. Like anything, how well can you do if you don't know how they're keeping score?

(To toot my own horn) I had some 'natural' ability and would do well against others with similar experience..but it wasn't till my buddy started talking about USPSA scoring that I really started focusing on what was needed to do 'well'.

It's like any sport you see. Sometimes you dont' always go for a touchdown, a strike out, or a slam dunk.. USPSA/IDPA is no different. You need to know when you can afford to take sloppy shots, when to go fast, or when to get those accurate hits, or when you need to do both. Some refer to this as "gaming", I tend to take the more pragmatic approach and calling it maximizing your scoring potential

I was never top dog or best in class but the things you learn are pretty useful and it gives you a different perspective on shooting handguns.. I think if you invest some time into it, you'll also see the benefit.

Also, to put it simply, it's a great way to spend a day with friends.

[HighLander51]

Voo, I really dislike Highlander's "shoot fast until you throw mike's and D's" approach but "You need to know when you can afford to take sloppy shots, when to go fast, or when to get those accurate hits, or when you need to do both."

Well, my answer is the same and it is just a rule of thumb (without seeing his times). Like you said, if it takes 3 hours, you really need to go faster. The question was 'do I slow down or speed up' The answer is speed up, so that he can see the difference it makes in scoring. It's only his first match, it will take tons of matches to figure out the game and scoring. No matter what, I always advise to run flat out on at least one stage to see where the shooters balance is.

More importantly, why haven't you been shooting USPSA in the last 2 years?