single shot legal document.

[luciferkang]

anybody have any legal docs stating that it's legal to remove the single shot sled from an ar pistol. a certain FFL in my area keeps harassing me at every gun show. today he scolded me in front of everybody at the gun show which was really f*cking uncalled for. sick of this clown and I want to shut him up once and for all. every other FFL there i talked to told me to tell him to STFU. sorry if my wording is a little off. only had 4 hours of sleep and worked from 8-5pm at the show. i appreciate any insight! thanks!

[CSACANNONEER]

There is nothing in the law saying it's legal for me to take a dump in my own toilet and there is nothing saying that it is legal to remove a sled. The fact is that laws normally don't say what is legal just what isn't. So, since therre is no law against removing a sled, it is legal.

[Cokebottle]

Tell the FFL to show you were the law says that it is illegal.

The only time the PC will state that something is legal is if it is an exception to something "normally" illegal:

Right turn on red is permitted after coming to a complete stop.
The CVC does not say that you shall proceed on a green light (because if you don't have legal control of the intersection you can't)

It is legal to bring a high capacity magazine into California if you legally possessed it within California prior to Jan 1, 2000.


The dimensionally compliant single shot exemption is very clear in the PC. There can be no question as to the legality of the initial purchase.
The PC does not prohibit a person from making modifications to their own gun.

[bwiese]

"That which is not prohibited by law is permitted."

There is no illegality for changing a firearm from one legal form to another.

The only concern in converting a single-shot pistol into another form is that the gun does not cross thru AW status at anytime; this situtation is of course avoided by having a BulletButton-style latching maglock installed already.

Please let me know (privately) the name of the FFL.

[Cokebottle]

The only concern in converting a single-shot pistol into another form is that the gun does not cross thru AW status at anytime; this situtation is of course avoided by having a BulletButton-style latching maglock installed already.

Which you need to properly lock the sled in place anyways.

But it's a complete non-issue for "conventional" handguns that just happen to not be on the roster.


Tell me again when the roster is going away? ?

[G60]

He doesn't understand how criminal law works. He is the one that needs to produce a document that states it is illegal.

As has already been stated in this thread a couple times before "anything that isn't illegal is legal"

[Justintoxicated]

It's hard to prove a negative... Thats always a good debate tacit. Only positive things can be proven. Since he is the one making the claim, he needs to show proof, not the other way around.

Next time he is arguing about it in front of a bunch of people just tell him "your the one with the FFL, show me the proof!" and if he can't then ask him where he come up with the idea from.

[luciferkang]

he said he spoke to the atf and doj. this guy has been on my a** for a few months! getting annoyed of him harassing me about my pistol at every gun show here. i think i'm just going to ignore him from now. the funny thing is that he's the one that transferred the pistol for me haha. thanks for the replies!

[Cokebottle]

he said he spoke to the atf and doj.

First sign that he's FOS.

ATF doesn't care. The roster is a California law.

If he is not an 07, it is illegal for HIM to change the configuration of the gun before initiating DROS to you.

[Cyc Wid It]

Somebody's mad they don't have an 07 FFL/the know how to convert guns.

[Munk]

A: "Show me where it's legal!!!!"

You: "Show me where it's not."
...
A: "ATF and DOJ guy told me it's not"
You: "Really? did they put it in writing or were they as full of "S" as you? There's no such thing as "spoken law", all proscriptions under law are documented; this isn't one of them. The ATF doesn't care about AR pistols, and the CADOJ only bothers about them when the roster or AW law comes up. In this case, my BB kills one, and the fact that I didn't buy it from a licensed dealer in a non-roster-exempt configuration eliminates the other."

[JayBeeJay]

Tell me again when the roster is going away? ?

You moving out of CA or is there good news I'm unaware of?

[Serafino]

You moving out of CA or is there good news I'm unaware of?

There's a littly itty-bitty question mark after the sign, I think it's meant to be a joke.

[SVRider]

"That which is not prohibited by law is permitted."

There is no illegality for changing a firearm from one legal form to another.

The only concern in converting a single-shot pistol into another form is that the gun does not cross thru AW status at anytime; this situtation is of course avoided by having a BulletButton-style latching maglock installed already.

Please let me know (privately) the name of the FFL.

I always read your posts with great respect as you are a legal expert especially when it comes to firearms law. I am not a lawyer so please receive my question with that understanding....

I was advised by one FFL that purchasing a single shot then returning the magazine to detachable status once receipt of the single-shot is complete has a problem with respect to "conspiracy to circumvent the law" (roster)....I suppose something along the lines of constructive intent.

Would you be able to speak to this point?

Thank you.

[Munk]

I always read your posts with great respect as you are a legal expert especially when it comes to firearms law. I am not a lawyer so please receive my question with that understanding....

I was advised by one FFL that purchasing a single shot then returning the magazine to detachable status once receipt of the single-shot is complete has a problem with respect to "conspiracy to circumvent the law" (roster)....I suppose something along the lines of constructive intent.

Would you be able to speak to this point?

Thank you.

it's conspiracy to OBEY the law.

The laws concerning the roster have very clear exemptions for pistols in that condition. Mainly the OAL, Barrel length, and capacity. You are clearly putting the gun into a configuration that is consistent with the laws requirements for not being rostered.

After the purchase is made while obeying said law, there are no further laws getting between you and modifying your gun as you see fit, so long as you don't make an AW at any point. (or an NFA item, blah blah). Once it's in your posession, you mostly have to worry about posession laws.