9mm vs .40 on steel plates

[Desert_Rat]

Looks like right at the 1:00 minute mark in your video, that ricochet almost took out your camera!

What distance were you shooting from?

I'm shooting from about 15 "big daddy" steps away. The camera is a gopro and is only about maybe 10 feet away. The lense on the gopro makes the depth of field look deceivingly far.

That ricochet was nothing. Once at a USPSA match we were all getting some splash back and it would draw blood.

[INJUNTOM]

My thoughts:

1) Personal experience on metal plates during my CCW class was that most people there had the big Glocks, etc knocking the plates down, but the girl there with a a 9mm couldn't knock them down without several hits. You could hear the bullets hit, but the plate wouldn't go over.

2) I think I've heard somewhere that more people have been murdered with a .22 than any other caliber.

3) I believe it was an asassin with a Browning .32 that started WWI

[Desert_Rat]

In a competition, the steel will be calibrated so that the lowest power factor ammo can knock them down.

[Shenaniguns]

RangerT ammo, comparing 45, 40 and 9mm. 40 and 45acp are pretty close. Energy ft/lbs at 25 yds is 65 more for the 40sw than the 9mm 45acp is 79ft/lbs more. The 9 and 40 are leaving the barrel at the same speed, but the 40sw bullet is 33grs heavier.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/default.aspx

I dont know what people love for the 9mm is. Maybe its just because of the lack of recoil and cheap to shoot. But anytime you crunch numbers, it just doesnt stack up to a 40sw or 45acp

Did you read the important aspects on the link you provided? Like penetration by similar models of 9, .40 and .45? It is all similar while the energy numbers of those same calibers are not going to make one shot lethal and another one not.

[DannyZRC]

all service calibers are designed to make optimum use of their energy.

they do this by engineering the projectile to expand a given amount, which corresponds to utilizing as much of the projectiles kinetic energy to destroy tissue as possible while maintaining penetration.

You have to reach the vital structures in order to incapacitate a person.

So, there is a desired amount of penetration (with some overhead to help ensure exit wounds and to ensure adequate penetration from suboptimal angles and through cover).

So, essentially, all well designed projectiles will drill to a certain depth in ballistics gelatin.

Making optimum use of cartridge energy to do work consists of expanding the projectile to a size where the crush cavity is as large as possible while still reaching sufficient depth.

the hard and ugly truth of the big bore cartridge, however, is that the size of the permanent crush cavity has a negligible effect on incapacitation, only so much as that a near miss of a vital structure with a small projectile might be converted to a hit with the larger cartridge.

The extra non-vital tissue destruction is not relevant on the order of seconds to incapacitation, but rather minutes or hours.

To incapacitate a person in a timeframe of seconds, you have to reach a vital target within the body and compromise it.

A larger handgun wound that misses a vital target will cause a person to bleed to death faster, but the difference may be 8 minutes instead of 9 or 10. (or even never, you can put holes in plenty of places where the greatest risk of death comes from infection rather than blood loss)

More Energy = Larger Crush Cavity = Questionably Useful

Larger calibers are more barrier blind, this is more relevant to law enforcement than civilian CCW, but like with everything else firearms related it's all up to personal choice.

You pays your money and you takes your chances, as they say.

[ubet]

Did you read the important aspects on the link you provided? Like penetration by similar models of 9, .40 and .45? It is all similar while the energy numbers of those same calibers are not going to make one shot lethal and another one not.

I did the compare the bullets, heaviest of each, and those are the numbers! If you are asking for a one shot kill out of a handgun (especially in a sd situations), you need to go back to playing video games.

[Shenaniguns]

I did the compare the bullets, heaviest of each, and those are the numbers! If you are asking for a one shot kill out of a handgun (especially in a sd situations), you need to go back to playing video games.

So you don't know the difference between minimum acceptable penetration and "energy"? I think you're the one that needs to go back to video games as I haven't owned a console in many years. I will leave you with some correct information from a real expert in the field.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

[ubet]

So you don't know the difference between minimum acceptable penetration and "energy"? I think you're the one that needs to go back to video games as I haven't owned a console in many years. I will leave you with some correct information from a real expert in the field.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

Even your OWN link shows that 45acp 230 grains, leaves twice the wound cavity as either of the 9mms. And he goes on to state how he prefers to carry 45acp!

Ill bet dollars to donuts you own a 9mm.

[Shenaniguns]

Even your OWN link shows that 45acp 230 grains, leaves twice the wound cavity as either of the 9mms. And he goes on to state how he prefers to carry 45acp!

Ill bet dollars to donuts you own a 9mm.

Let's see:

"When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr"


" As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage.http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm





Basically all the standard service calibers work when using good quality ammunition.

------------------------------------------

The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.



And yes I consolidated down to 9mm and have owned many larger calibers before.