Swartz Saftey

[Geetarguy]

Is Kimber the only manufacturer currently putting these in their 1911's?? And what do you guys think about it.....would you stay away from a 1911 that is swartz equipped??? Pros...Cons..of the swartz saftey???...also adding a poll to this post......check it out!!!!

[zdragon]

Swartz or not ...most modern firearms have some sort of FPS system to prevent accidental discharge.
i.e. Colt, Kimber and S&W1911 to name a few.

[JJ1911]

The series 80 colt 1911s also have a similar safety system

[redcliff]

The Swartz safety is operated by the grip-safety, the Colt Series 80 system is operated by pulling the trigger.

Smith & Wesson is the other major user of the Swartz safety besides Kimber that I'm aware of.

I'm not fond of either system, although I have 1911's with each type.

[Mute]

Colt tried the Swartz safety in the 30's and 40's and ultimately rejected it. I've fired quite a few Kimbers with the Swartz safety and for the most part they work but I've had misfire (no strike on the primer) on two different Kimbers for not discernible reason. Each subsequently worked without anymore hitches and the owners have not had a repeat of the same event. Not something I like to have happen on a gun meant for self defense.

[zdragon]

try not to ride your thumb on top of the thumb safety when you shoot with the Kimber Swartz FPS system. Light primer strikes could result if grip safety is not fully engaged.

[stormvet]

With a good grip on the gun. AKA proper grip, the swartz is not an issue. I prefer it to the 80 series safety that uses the trigger to deactivate the safety. When Kimber first started the series II guns there was some teething issues. Also allot of new Kimber owners damage the system when not properly dissembling and reassembling the firearm and then blame the firing pin safety system.

I own three Kimbers all still have the swartz intact. They are one of each size, custom, pro and ultra. All have well over a thousand rounds fired two with much much more and I have never had a malfunction due to the swartz FPS system.

[Cyc Wid It]

Hilton Yam of 10-8.

"The platforms utilizing the Swartz safety are a less than ideal choice across the board due to the inherent reliability problems of the design. The Swartz safety is extremely sensitive to the fit of the grip safety to the frame and the timing of the grip safety's trigger blocking arm. Tolerance issues can also lead to a Swartz safety that will time properly when the grip safety is depressed a certain way, and time differently when depressed a different way. This will typically be a product of loose fit of the grip safety to the frame tangs and/or loose fit of the thumb safety shaft through the grip safety. It is possible to have the grip safety timed such that the trigger will be able to release the sear well before the firing pin safety plunger has been moved far enough to clear the firing pin. Problems with improper timing of the Swartz safeties can lead to a situation where you get a "click" when you wanted a "bang." That's a serious problem. Unless department policy mandates a firing pin safety, I would choose a 1911 without one. It is possible to have a drop safe 1911 without the firing pin safety, and given the potential reliability problems with a poorly executed system, the perceived risk of drop safety is outweighed by the real risk of a failure to fire."

[stormvet]

Hilton Yam of 10-8.

"The platforms utilizing the Swartz safety are a less than ideal choice across the board due to the inherent reliability problems of the design. The Swartz safety is extremely sensitive to the fit of the grip safety to the frame and the timing of the grip safety's trigger blocking arm. Tolerance issues can also lead to a Swartz safety that will time properly when the grip safety is depressed a certain way, and time differently when depressed a different way. This will typically be a product of loose fit of the grip safety to the frame tangs and/or loose fit of the thumb safety shaft through the grip safety. It is possible to have the grip safety timed such that the trigger will be able to release the sear well before the firing pin safety plunger has been moved far enough to clear the firing pin. Problems with improper timing of the Swartz safeties can lead to a situation where you get a "click" when you wanted a "bang." That's a serious problem. Unless department policy mandates a firing pin safety, I would choose a 1911 without one. It is possible to have a drop safe 1911 without the firing pin safety, and given the potential reliability problems with a poorly executed system, the perceived risk of drop safety is outweighed by the real risk of a failure to fire."

This quote is mentioned whenever a swartz question is asked. It gets almost as much web time as Glock-Kaboom and I give it about as much credibility. Designs are improved over time, I have seen plenty of my Kimber FTE or FTF's on this site but I have never seen a "my swartz system is broke and my gun wont shoot".

[Mute]

The problem is, I have personally experience this issue on different Kimbers. It's not widespread, and the two guns that had the misfires weren't broken but it did happen. I've never had that same issue occur with any other 1911 I've used including those with the Colt Series 80 style safety.

[Cyc Wid It]

This quote is mentioned whenever a swartz question is asked. It gets almost as much web time as Glock-Kaboom and I give it about as much credibility. Designs are improved over time, I have seen plenty of my Kimber FTE or FTF's on this site but I have never seen a "my swartz system is broke and my gun wont shoot".

Hmmm so Hilton Yam isn't a reputable source? I think his word carries more weight than "random-internet-glock-kaboom." He didn't say it happens all the time, he just mentions what malfunctions are possible that are not present in guns that don't have the system.

[edwardm]

If I could get the @#$%(@ Meprolight rear sight off my Kimber, that safety would be gone. Grip safety and thumb safety were good enough for JMB, they're good enough for me.

I've never had a concern with my non-Swartz 1911's going bang when no bang is wanted. Kimber should come clean and at least rename the feature - Litigation Safety.

[CalNRA]

It's the reason I refuse to buy Kimbers.