Why Does Baer Build a gun so tight?

[Ranger20]

So I want a good 1911... for a Dirt sand mud rain out in the environment type 1911... that is where I work and play.. I need a 1911 that will run.. 5" 45acp and it's got to be reliable. I've read the Hilton Yam articles etc...

(I took out the SHTF didn't mean to conjure up a 2012 movie sceniero)


I'm leaning toward a Les Baer... carry gun. Not a target gun. Your basic Les Baer with fixed sites..

I asked the Baer folks at Shot why they build them so tight. They just said cause we do... we like tight tolarances and it doesn't effect functioning....
and while that seems to be a pat answer... I wasn't satisfied as it's the builder team... I'd rather hear that from customers not vested in selling said product...

I like the Baers but then you look at Browns they also run good but are not bank vault tight..

So is there any benefit or fault to a Baer built gun over the others? Brown, Night hawk.. Wilson springfiled Op etc...

If they get dirty do they still function? or are they so tight they lock up.. I mean drop in the sand dirty...

I'm going to call them later in the week but figured some of you who own Baers could share your experiences...

I got up to a few grand available to spend on a good 1911 I just don't want to waste my funds.

With my thanks..

[locosway]

If you want a SHTF gun, don't get something that costs as much as a used car. Either get a RIA and shoot the crap out of it so you know it works, or get one of the popular polymers.

The last thing you want is a target pistol that wasn't designed for SHTF situations, and to top it off, why worry about scratching it, etc, if you're actually using it in a working environment?

[Ranger20]

I had an RIA it was peening itself to death.. You are right I don't want a Target gun... Thats the last thing I'm interested in.. No matter how much I spend I dont' want to waste the funds... but I'm willing to pay good money if the result is a quality 1911 that runs... without having to do anything to it but load it up and shoot it.. I'm tired of having to buy a gun then take out the MIM parts and send it off to a smith to hopefully get it right...
Scratching is going to happen I don't much care how it' looks but how it holds up... only... Thanks for your input.. Locosway... I shot your avatar the other day... Nice...

[locosway]

HAHA, yeah, I liked that target so much it became my avatar.

If you have the cash to spend, then that's on you. But personally, I would rather have something else as a SHTF gun. Ideally, I think a revolver would be great because there's so many less parts, and even if the grips fall off, you can still use it with some duct tape.

I shot a Les Baer and it was a very nice gun. But, if there was a SHTF situation, I'd grab my 1918 GI issued 1911 over a Les Baer just because I know it works, and it was designed for SHTF situations, and it HAS been to hell and back already.

[SVTNate]

I've owned two Baer TRS pistols and never had a problem with either of them. One was so tight that it was a real PITA to field strip until I had about 600-800 rounds through it. The other wasn't quite that tight. They do loosen up after 600-1,000 rounds.

It's not really good or bad, just different. It can be a PITA at first, but that doesn't last long. They are reliable, well made pistols although I think fit/finish is superior on other semi-custom guns (although they cost more).

My Springfield Custom "Custom Carry" that I just sold has 600 rounds through it, and you still have to slap the muzzle to rack the slide most of the time. It's not just Baer that builds a tight gun.

[slick_711]

+1, your a moron to buy a 1911 (get a HK for that) for a shtf gun or even think shtf will even happen.

The only "moron" in this thread is someone who would bandy about the word moron and then suggest that there will never be a situation in which the OP might need to defend himself. I won't even comment on your grammar, logic, or push for HK.

OP, I've shot a number of Baers and have been pleased with each one. I've got my eye on a TRS when I can spare the $$$. Working in the firearm industry I have had the pleasure of handling and shooting a LOT of 1911s from a lot of manufacturers and the Baer is the production gun I covet most. Sadly, working in the firearm industry did not = Baer $$$.

They do like to be run wet, so keeping a decent coat of oil on the barrel and slide rails is a must. That said, I never encountered any reliability issues and they do loosen up after a bit of shooting. As with anything you intend to trust your life to, run at least a few hundred rounds through it before it becomes your go-to gun.

[locosway]

The only "moron" in this thread is someone who would bandy about the word moron and then suggest that there will never be a situation in which the OP might need to defend himself. I won't even comment on your grammar, logic, or push for HK.

OP, I've shot a number of Baers and have been pleased with each one. I've got my eye on a TRS when I can spare the $$$. Working in the firearm industry I have had the pleasure of handling and shooting a LOT of 1911s from a lot of manufacturers and the Baer is the production gun I covet most. Sadly, working in the firearm industry did not = Baer $$$.

They do like to be run wet, so keeping a decent coat of oil on the barrel and slide rails is a must. That said, I never encountered any reliability issues and they do loosen up after a bit of shooting. As with anything you intend to trust your life to, run at least a few hundred rounds through it before it becomes your go-to gun.

Running fine at the range is not the same as being wet, dusty, muddy, etc. I would not consider a $2+ 1911 from any of the boutique vendors to be a SHTF gun. Wilson comes close, but for the money I'd rather have something that has more plentiful parts, costs less, and with the money I can save I could get a shotgun to complement it, or thousands of rounds of practice ammo, or ...

I won't lie, Les Baer and the others make a nice 1911, and a lot of them are very reliable. But they're not battle proven, and they're not designed to be in such an environment. The OP said SHTF, so lets stick to that.

I'm still going to say a revolver is one of the best SHTF guns around. Outside of that, an inexpensive polymer would be on the top of my list, especially if you're going to have to carry it all over the place.

[Ranger20]

+1, your a moron to buy a 1911 (get a HK for that) for a shtf gun or even think shtf will even happen.

Sig220....
I had an HK fullsize... Agree it's a good gun. for rough service.... I just prefer the 1911 it fits my hand better...

Perhaps SHTF was overstated.. Or you envision that as end of the world.
Your comment was offensive and not called for... and I'm not a moron... . I'm just talking dirt, mud rain and sand durability a grab and go 1911 that you can count on. I work and play out in these types of environments I want to trust what I carry... I appreciate the other intellegent comments and input from those that have shot the Baer pistols...

[locosway]

I had an HK fullsize... Agree it's a good gun. for rough service.... I just prefer the 1911 it fits my hand better...

Perhaps SHTF was overstated.. Or you envision that as end of the world.
You don't have to be an ***... and I'm not a moron... I'm just talking dirt, mud rain and sand durability a grab and go 1911 that you can count on. I work and play out in these types of environments I want to trust what I carry...

SHTF is usually an end world type of scenario where there is a major breakdown in the system. All of my responses have been about this type of scenario, and not your average SD/HD situation.

If you're looking for something that runs great, looks great, and you can trust, then I see nothing wrong with a high end 1911. But, I have yet to see someone send one of these "to hell and back" as I have a lot of other firearms. I still think you'd be better served by my other suggestions if you're going to get it muddy, sandy, dirty, wet, etc and expect it to function. HK, Glock, Sig, etc do these types of tests when they develop their firearms, and this is why people recommend those types of firearms when talking about a hard working environment.

[IPSICK]

If you're willing to break the gun in with a couple thousand rounds or so, it should be perfectly fine and reliable.

Definitely test the gun with the SD rounds you intend to use after the break-in.

[Cyc Wid It]

A lot of "special" people still run 1911's in the field you know... sure a 1911 requires more knowledge and attention to maintain than a Glock/Sig/HK but given those parameters they can be just as reliable and infinitely more enjoyable to shoot.

[locosway]

A lot of "special" people still run 1911's in the field you know...

Yes they do, but which models are they using?

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with the 1911 platform, it's great and it does work. However, these boutique vendors do not build their pistols to run in these environments. Some LEO's might buy them, but often times they're simply for the die hard 1911 buffs who like the high end models for the range or target shooting.

If someone were to show me one of these vendors doing a torture test, and have the firearm survive and work as intended, then I would retract my statement.

[slick_711]

Running fine at the range is not the same as being wet, dusty, muddy, etc. I would not consider a $2+ 1911 from any of the boutique vendors to be a SHTF gun. Wilson comes close, but for the money I'd rather have something that has more plentiful parts, costs less, and with the money I can save I could get a shotgun to complement it, or thousands of rounds of practice ammo, or ...

I won't lie, Les Baer and the others make a nice 1911, and a lot of them are very reliable. But they're not battle proven, and they're not designed to be in such an environment. The OP said SHTF, so lets stick to that.

I'm still going to say a revolver is one of the best SHTF guns around. Outside of that, an inexpensive polymer would be on the top of my list, especially if you're going to have to carry it all over the place.

I've run all my 1911s in dirty conditions or I wouldn't trust them, I wasn't suggesting a few rounds at a static range. My Mil-Spec gets plenty dirty riding in a thigh rig when I'm hunting/camping in West Texas and it's always performed for me anyway. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the high end 1911s are not the best "SHTF" gun and that they are not necessarily battle proven for such situations. It is for that very reason that I've got a Glock 17 in my safe. That said, as long as it has proven itself in the user's hands there is no reason a good 1911 can't be used as a go-to gun, and while the OP mentioned "SHTF" he also specifically requested opinions about the 1911, so let's stick to that.

That said, with the OP's mention of sand/mud, a Baer may not be your best bet. My Springer handles these conditions well, but it is nowhere near as tight as a Baer. I'm not so sure the Baer wouldn't do alright, but I haven't gotten out in the mud with one, so Locosway has a point there.

As a side note: that's the problem with people talking about "SHTF." It means different things to different people. Sure, it could be some wild nuclear meltdown + zombie situation where capacity is king and muddy rain falls from the sky. OK, go to the Glock. It could also be a much more realistic civil unrest situation where the person in question just needs to protect himself when he has to go for supplies... In the more realistic "SHTF" scenarios the 1911 would be just as well suited.

[locosway]

I've run all my 1911s in dirty conditions or I wouldn't trust them, I wasn't suggesting a few rounds at a static range. My Mil-Spec gets plenty dirty riding in a thigh rig when I'm hunting/camping in West Texas and it's always performed for me anyway. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the high end 1911s are not the best "SHTF" gun and that they are not necessarily battle proven for such situations. It is for that very reason that I've got a Glock 17 in my safe. That said, as long as it has proven itself in the user's hands there is no reason a good 1911 can't be used as a go-to gun, and while the OP mentioned "SHTF" he also specifically requested opinions about the 1911, so let's stick to that.

That's the problem with people talking about "SHTF." It means different things to different people. Sure, it could be some wild nuclear meltdown + zombie situation where capacity is king and muddy rain falls from the sky. OK, go to the Glock. It could also be a much more realistic civil unrest situation where the person in question just needs to protect himself when he has to go for supplies... In the more realistic "SHTF" scenarios the 1911 would be just as well suited.

And because he did mention a 1911 one of my first recommendations was a GI 1911 that's not setup for target/safe duties.

[Sam]

The only "moron" in this thread is someone who would bandy about the word moron and then suggest that there will never be a situation in which the OP might need to defend himself. I won't even comment on your grammar, logic, or push for HK.

They do like to be run wet, so keeping a decent coat of oil on the barrel and slide rails is a must. That said, I never encountered any reliability issues and they do loosen up after a bit of shooting. As with anything you intend to trust your life to, run at least a few hundred rounds through it before it becomes your go-to gun.

I completely agree. These high end 1911s are not just target guns and I think they'd be a fine weapon for whatever life decides to throw your way. They do have to be maintained a little more than the modern polymers but that's just another consideration that goes into the buying decision. I have no idea why people think these types of 1911s wouldn't make a great self defense, SHTF, duty gun. My Wilson CQB is every bit as reliable, clean or dirty, as my Glocks.

OP, you should head on over to the 1911 forums. They have a Les Baer subforum over there.