hypothetical transfer question

[Steve1968LS2]

Let just say that I had a relative pass away who lived in Texas. I went back there for the services and was willed two firearms.

1. Walther PPK .380
2. S&W bodyguard .380

If I was to bring these back to CA how would I go about doing the registration. Neither hold more than 10 rnds so that at least wouldn't be an issue.

Thoughts?

[Librarian]

Which relative?

Feds say no FFL needed for interstate inheritance.

BUT California only allows OPLAW form for inheriting from parent/grandparent (or child/grandchild), otherwise supposed to go
executor -> CA-FFL -> 10-day wait and DROS -> you

[Steve1968LS2]

Which relative?

Feds say no FFL needed for interstate inheritance.

BUT California only allows OPLAW form for inheriting from parent/grandparent (or child/grandchild), otherwise supposed to go
executor -> CA-FFL -> 10-day wait and DROS -> you

Step dad. Immediate family right?

Oh, why am I not surprised that CA has a "special" law..

[cannon]

Hypothetically assuming you do register them. Isn't there a self registration form?

[Librarian]

Step dad. Immediate family right?

Oh, why am I not surprised that CA has a "special" law..

Do you share the same name? If so, I'd call it good.

If not, well, there has been a lot of discussion on the refinements of the law. On balance, it seems step-parent is not included, but we don't have an opinion from a lawyer or a court that clarifies.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...Family_Members and http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...rms_Interstate, maybe run the idea past your own lawyer.

However, unless something is a handgun that is off-Roster, all that means is you need a CA-FFL and to pay whatever interstate transfer fee he/she will charge.

As to Cannon's reference to a voluntary registration form, such a thing exists but really isn't useful here.

There are a very few uses for voluntarily registering a gun; one of the drawbacks is that the state doesn't verify that the person submitting the form is the actual owner. For an older gun that went through a private sale, the 'chain of title' would be difficult to establish.

[rdmax]

I recently moved from Florida and had to fill out the forms to register them. You could just register them first and see if they are rejected or accepted before physically moving the guns into the state. You already own them probably under Texas law. I found out that you do not need to fill those forms out until you are ready to move the firearms into the state. So, if I lived in CA for 3 years already and then decided to move firearms I stored out of state into CA, all I needed to do was fill out those registration forms and pay the fee for it. If the applications are not rejected, go pick them up yourself and bring them into CA. No harm if rejected (out Dros fee) since the firearms are still in Texas and then just go the next step as others recommended.

[Dr Rockso]

I recently moved from Florida and had to fill out the forms to register them. You could just register them first and see if they are rejected or accepted before physically moving the guns into the state. You already own them probably under Texas law. I found out that you do not need to fill those forms out until you are ready to move the firearms into the state. So, if I lived in CA for 3 years already and then decided to move firearms I stored out of state into CA, all I needed to do was fill out those registration forms and pay the fee for it. If the applications are not rejected, go pick them up yourself and bring them into CA. No harm if rejected (out Dros fee) since the firearms are still in Texas and then just go the next step as others recommended.

The OP is a current CA resident...he wouldn't use the new resident handgun ownership report, he'd use the operation of law/intra-familial transfer form (provided that the relationship meets the requirements of PC 12078).

Here's the relevant quote from the PC.

(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means
any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

Not particularly clarifying with respect to step-parents. I'd say it's probably valid in most cases, especially if he was ever your legal parent or guardian when you were growing up.

[ke6guj]

IIRC, a bequethed firearm can come from anyone and be shipped directly to you without needing to use an FFL. Federal law allows it, and CA's "operation of law" exemption is not limited to immediate family members.

[Dr Rockso]

IIRC, a bequethed firearm can come from anyone and be shipped directly to you without needing to use an FFL. Federal law allows it, and CA's "operation of law" exemption is not limited to immediate family members.

Hmm...not so sure about that

(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate
succession, or other means by one individual to another if both
individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the
following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30
days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or
deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that
includes information concerning the individual taking possession of
the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description
of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals
complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the
Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a
handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means
any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

[ke6guj]

Hmm...not so sure about that

the way it was explained to me is that that is one exemption in the PC that is specifically listed for willed firearms, but that bequethments are also covered under "operation of law"

bwiese explains it here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=433830

[Librarian]

the way it was explained to me is that that is one exemption in the PC that is specifically listed for willed firearms, but that bequethments are also covered under "operation of law"

bwiese explains it here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=433830

Bill's paragraph there

(2) exempt under CA law from using an FFL since under 12078 (way down the list) there's an exemptions
for probate/'operation of law' matters.

seems to refer to the bit of 12078 Dr Rockso quoted - that includes the (idiotic) family restrictions.

[Dr Rockso]

the way it was explained to me is that that is one exemption in the PC that is specifically listed for willed firearms, but that bequethments are also covered under "operation of law"

bwiese explains it here, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=433830

Okay, Bill knows his stuff. But, damn, 12078 is such a rat's nest! It is curious why they'd be so redundant about bequest/interstate succession (re: immediate family members) when it's all covered by operation of law. Oh well, since when do any gun laws make sense?

(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to a person
who takes title or possession of a handgun by operation of law if the
person is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing,
receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm and all of the following
conditions are met:

[Dr Rockso]

Bill's paragraph there seems to refer to the bit of 12078 Dr Rockso quoted - that includes the (idiotic) family restrictions.

If you read further down the ARFCOM thread (last post) you'll see his response. To quote Bill, "Yes, there are quite a few duplicative items in 12078. The fact that it is codified where you point out should be regarded as emphasis as opposed to uniqueness."

I wouldn't have made such an assertion (this is all way too complicated for my lowly engineer brain ), but I have to think that Bill wouldn't say it if he couldn't back it up.

[Librarian]

Messy is so much fun ...

12078.
(i) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to a person who takes title or possession of a firearm that is not a handgun by operation of law if the person is not prohibited by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms.

This is pretty clear for long guns - OPLAW transfer is OK.

This is gloppier:

(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to a person who takes title or possession of a handgun by operation of law if the person is not prohibited by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms and all of the following conditions are met:

(A) If the person taking title or possession is neither a levying officer as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or
680.210 of the Code of Civil Procedure nor

a person who is receiving that firearm pursuant to subparagraph (G), (I), or (J) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (u),

(u)As used in this section:

(1)"Infrequent" has the same meaning as in paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 12070.

(2)"A person taking title or possession of firearms by operation of law" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following instances wherein an individual receives title to, or possession of, firearms:
....
(G)A transmutation of property consisting of firearms pursuant to Section 850 of the Family Code.
...

(I)Firearms received by the family of a police officer or deputy sheriff from a local agency pursuant to Section 50081 of the Government Code.

(J)The transfer of a firearm by a law enforcement agency to the person who found the firearm where the delivery is to the person as the finder of the firearm pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code.

the person shall, within 30 days of taking possession, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report of information concerning the individual
taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the department.

(The OPLAW form, it seems.)

So, while (2)(c)(1 and 2) do allow the intrafamilial transfer, that's not the end of the section, and other inheritance gets covered further down in (2)(i)(1 and 2).

Mea culpa. New Wiki article coming, "Inheriting firearms, both within California and Interstate".

[Steve1968LS2]

Do you share the same name? If so, I'd call it good.

If not, well, there has been a lot of discussion on the refinements of the law. On balance, it seems step-parent is not included, but we don't have an opinion from a lawyer or a court that clarifies.

No shared last name.. but how could a step father not be considered a parent.. especially since he's been for a long time?