"Inaccurate" Legend of Colt 1911/.45 ACP

[Purdey]

I remember as a kid growing up a lot of vets would comment on how inaccurate the .45 ACP Colt 1911 was. I remember asking more than once why police used revolvers rather than 1911's and was told it was due to accuracy.

Last Sunday at church I told someone I had to leave right after to shoot in a USPSA match and an old vet asked me if I shot a .45 ACP. I replied "no, something similar, either a 9 or 10 mm" and he said "oh, OK that's a lot different. The .45 is real inaccurate."

I hadn't heard that in years! What's the basis for that legend? Thanks.

[BigRich]

The Government specifications for GI guns was biased towards dependability no matter how dirty and cruddy the gun got (muddy combat environment with no time to clean). This necessitated loose tolerances. This also resulted in less than match accuracy. The bigger problem was that the average GI that was issued a 1911-A1 was not a terribly proficient pistol shot and there was little stress placed on learning to shoot a pistol really well, outside of the match team members. The result was guys with little skill shooting a pistol that is not the easiest gun to shoot well. This became the legend of the terribly inaccurate 45 auto. I have fired a few GI issue condition guns. They do OK if you know what you are doing and shoot good quality ammo. Read about Elmer Keith offering to put a 45 bullet through someone's hat while he was in the military from a distance. He could do it using a GI pistol.

[STAGE 2]

Loose tolerances don't necessarily mean an inaccurate pistol. There are plenty of rattle trap WWII era 1911s that are more accurate than a human.

The problem with the 1911 and accuracy is the same problem with the M1 carbine and stopping power. In otherwords, its the indian and not the arrow. The "it cant be me so it must be the gun" has been around for ages. Ironically the people who could use the most training and are most prone to this are the one's who were/are usually issued a pistol.

[Purdey]

Thank you very much for the two wonderful responses...

[GM4spd]

Loose tolerances don't necessarily mean an inaccurate pistol. There are plenty of rattle trap WWII era 1911s that are more accurate than a human.

The problem with the 1911 and accuracy is the same problem with the M1 carbine and stopping power. In otherwords, its the indian and not the arrow. The "it cant be me so it must be the gun" has been around for ages. Ironically the people who could use the most training and are most prone to this are the one's who were/are usually issued a pistol.

Great point--years ago a pro shooter (Brian Enos)? took a stock GI 45
and went into competition against a field of other 45 shooters with there
specialty 45s and won the match. It's like the term "accuracy" with guys
and their AR15s/off a bench/with handloaded ammo/scopes/etc/ shooting
small groups---so what? What can you do in a REAL world situation---
grabbing your rifle,shooting offhand@ 200 yds with iron sites and ball
ammo? That is what will tell you if you are a good shooter---it doesn't
matter what the rifle or pistol is capable of,if you as a shooter don't know how to
shoot. Pete

[Rust]

Also remember the GI pistols have horrible little sights compared to most modern designs on top of of the other issues. Add up the tolerance stacking, war time prodution QC, lack of training, etc. Its not surprising they got a bad rep.

[EOD Guy]

When I was in an Army marksmanship unit, I was issued 2 M1911A1s, 1 for hardball and 1 for wad cutter. They were extremely accurate pistols. Of course they were match conditioned firearms and not regular issue. I also had an S&W Model 52 in .38 special for center fire matches and an S&W Model 27 41 for rim fire matches.

Issue M1911s were made to loose tolerances so that they would function in a combat environment with associated grime getting into the pistols. I could still qualify as expert with issue M1911A1s. I tried, but my unit wouldn't let us use match weapons for qualification.

[RedFord150]

My Dad was a Korean War Vet. He also grew up in Nebraska hunting with Rifles and Shotguns.
As good as he was with long guns, he hated handguns. He claimed he could not hit the side of a barn from the inside with his 'Army .45'. Luckily, they gave him a Mortar and an M1 Rifle to keep the 'Commies' at bay.
My Dad went to his grave thinking the 1911 was the lousiest gun ever made. Too bad he never got a chance to shoot my Dan Wesson PM7.

[ap3572001]

I shot my friends WWII Government rebuild. ( Colt with Remington Slide.)
It shoot about as accurate as my old Sig P220 at 25 yards.

[82A1CAL]

Is 1911 "loose tolerance" made to function in combat environment a myth? IMO loose tolerances mean gun was made from an assembly line. Slide from one bin have to fit frame from another. I bet if you throw them in sand or mud with slide open they won't function regardless of fitment.

Issue M1911s were made to loose tolerances so that they would function in a combat environment with associated grime getting into the pistols. I could still qualify as expert with issue M1911A1s. I tried, but my unit wouldn't let us use match weapons for qualification.

[nlpro]

I work with a couple Vietnam veterans one army one marine and they both said the 1911's they were issued where old and worn out and that was the root of the accuracy problems they had in their perspective units .The marine vet said his and a couple others he saw the barrels did not quite lock up properly they were so worn out and well used but they still went bang every time .

[beerman]

I own an all original, 1944 1911a1 (rem rand) that will shoot almost as well as my 220 Sig .

[gorenut]

Perhaps the "inaccuracy" notion came about when it comes to longer range. .45 drops in velocity more drastically than many of the other calibers especially if you're talking about compared to revolvers and magnum loads. I think many of the older-fashioned shooters are more attuned to do cowboy target shooting. From what I understand, after the Korean war, part of America's decline with the usage of the 45 caliber in general (more specifically, not in pistols) had to do with shooting the opposition at longer distances, uphill, vs opponents wearing heavy winter uniforms. Ammo would not penetrate. Haha, maybe thats where Death Wish got its idea from - wearing layers of sweaters as body armor.

[ocspeedracer]

I'm pretty sure the root of the accuracy problem with the military .45s was this.

They received parts from different makers, Colt, Springfield, Browning( i think browning, could be another maker).

They all came as parts, all boxes got emptied and dumbped into piles of what type of part it was. They got slapped together with all those makers different parts and by the end they had enough parts for a gun but not everything would fit together to make the last gun. At least that's what I read.

Makes since, different makers different tolerances, machines etc. No fitting just slapping together and you get a crappy .1911.

[bombadillo]

Old fart just couldn't shoot. 1911's are great guns, usually even the old loose guns are still as accurate as anything I own unless they have a completely shot out barrel. People just don't like to admit that they really aren't that great of a shooter. I get so tired of this, that, or the other reason to why they can't shoot well using this or that piece of equipment. I suck with a glock, and I KNOW that I suck with the glock. I don't spend the time to get out there and train with it and don't really want to because I have plenty of other guns that I shoot VERY well with so I have no reason or need to use a glock. See where I'm going with this.