1911s....

[PanzerAce]

So I am looking into getting a .45, and I was wondering what maker you guys recommended. I have shot the Kimber .22s, and liked them, but I am not sure how much that translates into .45 quality/handling/etc. So if you guys have advice: Give it!

[1911_sfca]

Kimbers and the Sig GSR are great guns. You can basically shoot one out of the box. Some other guns will require a little trigger work and fitting by a gunsmith to feel right. The GSR and Kimbers are a little pricey, but for an out of the box shooter, they are really good.

As you go up in price, you can get the custom "race" guns that will be realllly nice. and $$$.

[PanzerAce]

Cool, thanks for the help. Good out of the box shooters is what I am looking for (So many rounds, so little time), so if I can avoid having to modify the gun at all thats worth a little extra

[PanzerAce]

hmmm, I was considering a SA (price), but I have been hearing on other forums that SA quality in general has dropped in the past couple of years, and while they will fix the problems for free, it can take awhile to get it fully working....

[bwiese]

I've met lotsa folks w/Kimber jam-o-matics that took extensive warranty massaging before they were right.

The Springfield 1911s I've seen with problems were readily 'fixed' by using non-Springfield magazines. (I use Colt or MecGar mags in my 1911s.)

5" 1911s seem to run better than shorter bbl'd 1911s. In particular 3.5" and shorter bbls have more problems, w/3"-ers leading the pack. (I had a 3" ParaOrdnance P10 a few years ago. It's come back as the "Warthog".)

"Race guns" are always a bit finicky. I'd never rely on one for defense; a bit of 'slop' designed into orig Colt 1911 makes it serviceable in a wide range of operating conditions (varying dirt/temperature/lubrication/cleaning levels).



Bill Wiese
San Jose

[bear]

To be honest, after reading through the whole thread here, I recommend you buy a Kimber 1911 in .22 LR. That would be an excellent place to start.

Another excellent place would be a used "pre-II" Kimber, can be found for less than $1000 pretty easy. The early "pre-Series II" Kimbers run pretty good out of the box.

Can't go wrong with a 5" Colt, either in .45 or in .22LR.

[KrazyKevy]

If you are willing to spend, buy a Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, or Les Baer. All are out of the box shooters, and you will never be able to shoot better than any of those guns.

For those who dont wish to spend more than $1400; SA, Kimber, Sig, Colt, and Para Ordnanace make great 1911s, but it also depends on which models. I'd stay away from 1911s cheaper than $650.

I own a Kimber and a SA. Comparing the two, it is night and day. I perfer my Kimber. Some people have finicky Kimbers, but mine and 5 other friends of mine with kimbers has yet to have a problem.

[PanzerAce]

If you are willing to spend, buy a Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, or Les Baer. All are out of the box shooters, and you will never be able to shoot better than any of those guns.

For those who dont wish to spend more than $1400; SA, Kimber, Sig, Colt, and Para Ordnanace make great 1911s, but it also depends on which models. I'd stay away from 1911s cheaper than $650.

I own a Kimber and a SA. Comparing the two, it is night and day. I perfer my Kimber. Some people have finicky Kimbers, but mine and 5 other friends of mine with kimbers has yet to have a problem.

what are the kimber warranties like?
Oh, and as for price, Im looking for something less than 1k.

[ryang]

There's the rub

Less than 1k puts a serious crimp on your choices.

I shot a Les Baer SRP and now have one on order. $2700
I shot a Les Baer TRS and while nice, wasn't that impressed. $1600
Second choice was a Wilson CQB. $2300
I trained with a Kimber TLE/RLII and liked it very much. I consider it a good bang for buck. (no pun intended) The owner did have to send it back to Kimber for warranty work but it was done and done free of charge. I almost went with the TLE instead of the SRP; it's a good value and shot almost as well as the SRP. It's in your price range.
I have a Para-Ord P12. Trigger is lousy in comparison with any of the above and that small barrel combined with alloy frame makes it harder to control and shoot accurately. It has some "extra" features standard but really needs a good trigger job. Some people may not like the fat grip.

If you have a range that rents any/all of these guns then by all means try before you buy. Also depending on your shooting skill it may be more worthwhile to buy a cheaper ($600) 1911 and lots of ammo. Once you get proficient and know what you like (and don't like) in a 1911 you can sell it and buy one that better fits your preferences.

In my case I based my choice on the following criteria in order of priority:
1. Accuracy
2. Fully coated (I have an ultrasonic cleaner that can pit bare aluminum)
3. Fit (the Kimber safety rubs my thumb)
4. Good trigger
5. Controllability

Good luck and have fun.

[PanzerAce]

Thanks for the advice. Right off the top of my head, I cant remember what make the .45 I rent at the range is, but im going this friday, so ill know then. As for the Kimber, for some reason the .22 on the .45 frame just felt right for me (easy access to everything, good placement), but I still wont to try out other makes. One thing about Kimbers though: There seems to me to be ALOT of options in terms of price and gun, even excluding the shorties, basically I am just trying to figure the sortof accuracy/price order, like with M1A/M14s, it goes Standard/Loaded Standard/National Match/Super Match.

Oh, and if any one here actually has a Kimber, what do you guys think about it?

[Kruzr]

I have 2 Kimbers, both Series II guns. Never had a problem with either. One has 30K rounds through it and the other has about 9K. I also have a Springfield Loaded 1911. The SA is my "worst" 1911 of my 7. I see about 3 new Kimbers a month and 4 new Springfield 1911's a month. IMO, the Kimbers are finished far better than the SA loadeds and mil-specs I see. I see more problems with new SA's than new Kimbers. Most of the SA problems are parts falling off like the sights or the plunger tubes (3 of those recently.) I have never come across a Kimber that isn't accurate. I can't say the same for SA.

Springfield pays shipping back to them for warranty but they are usually very slow in turnaround in my experience (6 weeks the first time, 5 weeks the second time.) Kimber doesn't pay shipping but has a fast turnaround. SA gives you a written lifetime warranty, Kimber, like Ruger gives you a one year but will fix your gun for life. BTW, with a Les Baer or an Ed Brown, you get no warranty. Both will fix your gun if there is a problem.

You need to get the 1911 that feels best to you, not which brand someone else recommends. There is a difference in the frame cut on a SA and a Kimber as there are in other 1911's. Be sure and handle any gun you plan to buy.

[bu-bye]

Buying a 1911 is like buying a car. You have the guys that buy a new Ford truck and it dies weeks later. Then you have the guys who have had a Ford truck for 50+ years it still runs great. Many love them and many don't. There are so many makers of 1911's that its almost pointless to ask around about them. Some will get a great gun and others will get a lemon. Its just life. In this situation I look to see who will backup their product if you do end up with a lemon. Sure you don't want to buy the $299 el-cheapo 1911 but out of the top few (springfield, Kimber, Colt, sig, para) which do you like. Unless you are a crack shot or shoot in matches don't worry about accuracy. 99.9% of the gun buyers out there can't shoot as well as their gun can. I do feel bad watching the guy with w $2000+ gun turn his whole target into swiss cheese at 10 yards. Skill can only go so far, after that its all natural born talent. Don't invest into a pricy gun if you can't even shoot it better then the $299 gun.

[donger]

Buying a 1911 is like buying a car. You have the guys that buy a new Ford truck and it dies weeks later. Then you have the guys who have had a Ford truck for 50+ years it still runs great. Many love them and many don't. There are so many makers of 1911's that its almost pointless to ask around about them. Some will get a great gun and others will get a lemon. Its just life. In this situation I look to see who will backup their product if you do end up with a lemon. Sure you don't want to buy the $299 el-cheapo 1911 but out of the top few (springfield, Kimber, Colt, sig, para) which do you like. Unless you are a crack shot or shoot in matches don't worry about accuracy. 99.9% of the gun buyers out there can't shoot as well as their gun can. I do feel bad watching the guy with w $2000+ gun turn his whole target into swiss cheese at 10 yards. Skill can only go so far, after that its all natural born talent. Don't invest into a pricy gun if you can't even shoot it better then the $299 gun.

Bu-Bye is completely correct. Although I think a little harsh . I think what he was trying to say was that 1911's are a little iffy as a true combat sidearm. They have a slightly higher tendency to fail (FTF, FTE, etc) compared to more modern handguns, ie. Hk, Sig, Glock. But IMHO I don't think you can get a more enjoyable gun than a Springfield Mil Spec 1911 .45 ACP. They run about $400, and although made in Brazil, are extremely well made and just as reliable as the pricier Kimbers. The stock single action on most 1911's, for anyone trained on the traditional DA/SA system, are a revelation...they break so cleanly and evenly. Polishing the feed-ramp with a Dremel with take care of most of the FTF issues.

BTW, I think most people can become excellent shooters through practice and a little dedication. If you can handle the extra cost of the more expensive 1911s, by all means, go ahead and save some time and effort and purchase the a $1500-2000 piece.

So get a 1911, what ever the heck smiles at you, and have fun.

[PanzerAce]

Well, I would spend the money if I could, but the fact of the matter is that I also need to have enough money to get the M1A that I am looking at, And truthfully, that has a higher priority

[Black Majik]

A fun thread...

Good read guys...

Theres three types of classes of production 1911s in my view.

The semi-custom/semi-production:
- Les Baer
- Ed Brown
- Springfield PRO
- Rock River
- Wilson Combat
- Nighthawk
- STI/SVI

The regular production mid level 1911s
- Springfield Armory
- Para Ordnance
- Kimber
- Colt
- Smith Wesson
- SIG

Then the beginner/lower end 1911s
- Rock Island
- Norinco
- Auto Ordnance
- Charles Daly

1911s are a funny thing though. For a thousand bucks, it'll get you a mid level 1911 such as a Kimber TLE or Warrior, and slightly more than $1K you can get a Springfield Armory TRP or Kimber Gold Match, Team Match etc...

For mid level production, I've been impressed with the Kimbers, Colts and Smith & Wesson 1911s. Though the newer Kimbers aren't as nice as the Series I versions, but their fit and finish still surpasses Springfield Armory's. The Colts, while they're nice are sorta pricing themselves outta the game. Even their NRM Governments/Commanders are too expensive for what you get. They're great, and beautiful... but you can get other guns with more options for $800.

If you can go for a semi-custom 1911, I'd say definitely go for it. The quality is definitely better than the Kimbers, SA,Colt, and much more than the Paras. Parts are better quality (no MIM), the guns usually feel solid without any rattle when you shake em' , and they're usually very accurate.

Springfields, well... they're so so in my opinion. I'd rather get a Kimber than a Springfield. Most of the Springfields I've seen have been ok in fit. Only the Pro was the only model that I was actually over, but that's $2000+. The Loaded models I've shot were so so in in accuracy. The TRP's are pretty nice, but I figure for that price you can spend a little more for a semi-custom pistol. I even found an MC Operator that rattled more than a Colt

Take a look at the Smith and Wesson 1911s. They have been getting awesome reviews, the guns are very smooth, and I've heard they're quite reliable. Only buggers are the warning labels on the gun and the usually rough looking crowns. But the guns I've held are smooth without any sharp edges. They're priced around the NRM Colt Governments.

Para Ordnance. Dont' bother.

Dangit... I dont remember where I'm going with all this that I have written so just flip a coil between a Colt and Smith & Wesson. If you decide not to go for either, flip a coin for a Les Baer or Springfield Pro. Problem solved.