9mm 147 gr vs 9mm 147gr subsonic

[POLICESTATE]

So I'm swapping out all my 115 gr ammo for my Sig P228 with 147gr ammo, however I'm wondering why I would want subsonic vs standard velocity ammo?

[Ultimate]

subsonic is for when you are using suppressors. Otherwise standard velocity will be a hotter load.

[Katana]

All standard velocity 147gr defense loads are subsonic out of standard length barrels.

[POLICESTATE]

All standard velocity 147gr defense loads are subsonic out of standard length barrels.

Then why do they mark some boxes as subsonic, and other as not? Marketing?

[Katana]

[J-cat]

Then why do they mark some boxes as subsonic, and other as not? Marketing?

Because it is not PC to print "Extra Deadly".

[KillZone45]

I would go with sub-sonic for a HD round, if you happen to fire all your rounds inside the house defending your family I'm sure it would be better on the ears.

[Katana]

Because it is not PC to print "Extra Deadly".

[Eljay]

Then why do they mark some boxes as subsonic, and other as not? Marketing?

Think rifle, not pistol, and it makes a difference.

[Rugerdaddy]

147 grain ammo has a poor reputation in 9mm. Mostly because it's subsonic, it doesn't have the penetration of 115 or 124 grain. The more recent supersonic 147 is giving better results, but is yet unproven in the field. The most proven rounds for self defense are 115 and 124 grain hollowpoint from a reputable manufacturer. That's what I use.

[stove pipe]

147 grain ammo has a poor reputation in 9mm. Mostly because it's subsonic, it doesn't have the penetration of 115 or 124 grain. The more recent supersonic 147 is giving better results, but is yet unproven in the field. The most proven rounds for self defense are 115 and 124 grain hollowpoint from a reputable manufacturer. That's what I use.

Sigh. Here we go yet again.

We're not in the 1980's anymore. Modern 147gr is fine. In fact, it penetrates more than 124gr.

Here's a good starting place for more info: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De...L%20AMMUNITION

[Rugerdaddy]

Sigh. Here we go yet again.

We're not in the 1980's anymore. Modern 147gr is fine. In fact, it penetrates more than 124gr.

Here's a good starting place for more info: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De...L%20AMMUNITION

My source is Massad Ayoob- none better- as of 2008. That's hardly the 1980's. I only agree that the more recent supersonic 147 rounds penetrate as well, but reiterate that they are yet unproven in the field. Please offer any data from police departments that are using that load to support your claim, and you will help convince me. To my knowledge, police are using 115 and 124 grain HP. If there are any LEOs out there reading this who carry 9mm, I would appreciate their input.

The data on the site you refer us to is based on ballistic tests on gelatin. Unless I am attacked in my home by Lime Jello-man intruders, I prefer to base my opinion on field data.

In summary, your opinion is based on data which makes it valid and interesting, but I prefer the data from actual usage. I believe, though, that ANY high velocity 9mm HP made by a reputable company, 115, 124, or 147 will do a good job of stopping the bad guy. I am not convinced of the efficacy of the subsonic 147 HPs.

[ballyhoo]

147

My source is Massad Ayoob- none better- as of 2008. That's hardly the 1980's. I only agree that the more recent supersonic 147 rounds penetrate as well, but reiterate that they are yet unproven in the field. Please offer any data from police departments that are using that load to support your claim, and you will help convince me. To my knowledge, police are using 115 and 124 grain HP. If there are any LEOs out there reading this who carry 9mm, I would appreciate their input.

The data on the site you refer us to is based on ballistic tests on gelatin. Unless I am attacked in my home by Lime Jello-man intruders, I prefer to base my opinion on field data.

In summary, your opinion is based on data which makes it valid and interesting, but I prefer the data from actual usage. I believe, though, that ANY high velocity 9mm HP made by a reputable company, 115, 124, or 147 will do a good job of stopping the bad guy. I am not convinced of the efficacy of the subsonic 147 HPs.

Most LEO agencies in California stopped using the 147 grain-subsonic 9mm and have not switched back. This would include the LA County Sheriff's dept.

[temecula]

I chose 147g WWB flat nose to practice because it is only $160 for 1000 rounds.

CHEAPEST can be found for 9mm

[bernieb90]

I am not convinced of the efficacy of the subsonic 147 HPs.

All these people shot by SDPD apparently were.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/winchester_9mm.pdf

By the way Ayoob is a far from reliable source on terminal ballistics.

LAPD, LASD, And SDPD still use 147gr in their 9mms. You may wan't to tell them their loads don't work. FWIW Ranger-T 147gr (RA9T) is considered one of the top performing if not the top performing load in 9mm.