357 vs 9? wtf

[ilikeguns]

It seems stupid, and maybe it is. But looking at ballistics, 9x19 and 357 magnum have similar offerings in velocity and weight. So... if a 9x19 bullet that weighs the same as a 357 is traveling about as fast as a 357... is there a difference?
Sounds stupid to say that 9 is equal to 357 and I dont want to believe it since I just acquired a GP100, so someone help me out here.

[paul0660]

if a 9x19 bullet that weighs the same as a 357 is traveling about as fast as a 357... is there a difference?

There wouldn't be, but a quick look shows .357 125 grain at 1600 fps, 9mm at 1200 fps..........and kinetic energy increases by the square of speed. .357 packs more punch by far.

[olhunter]

It seems stupid, and maybe it is. But looking at ballistics, 9x19 and 357 magnum have similar offerings in velocity and weight. So... if a 9x19 bullet that weighs the same as a 357 is traveling about as fast as a 357... is there a difference?
Sounds stupid to say that 9 is equal to 357 and I dont want to believe it since I just acquired a GP100, so someone help me out here.

If you match velocities, then yeah, they're about the same. But the .357 is generally loaded faster than a 9mm. Otherwise, you'd have a .38 Special.

[advocatusdiaboli]

Not 9mm so this strays a bit from the topic, but .357 Magnum and .357 Sig are nearly equivalent with 124 grain bullets but only at 124 grains. And that's why Sig created the .357 Sig--.357 Magnum punch in a .40 form factor.

Kinetic energy is 1/2*mass*velocity-squared. Since a 9mm needs a light bullet to go as fast as the .357, it's kinetic energy is less. When comparing the same weight bullets (a post above) it becomes obvious (by 400 fps) that 9mm is less powerful.

[ilikeguns]

Thanks guys. Any idea offhand who offers a 1600 fps jhp for 357?

[scarville]

Not so much.

From the Buffalo Bore website

===== 9x19mm =====
115 gr JHP +P    1,300 fps 431 ft-lbs
115 gr JKHP +P+  1,400 fps 500 ft-lbs
124 gr JKHP +P   1,225 fps 413 ft-lbs
124 gr JHP1 +P+  1,300 fps 461 ft-lbs

===== 357 magnum =====
158 gr JHC    1,475 fps 763 ft-lbs
125 gr JHC    1,700 fps 802 ft-lbs 

===== 357 for short barrels =====
158 gr JHP    1,100 fps 424 ft-lbs 
125 gr JHP    1,225 fps 416 ft-lbs

===== 38 spl =====
125 gr JHP         900 fps 225 ft-lbs
125 gr JHP +P    1,050 fps 306 ft-lbs
158 gr SWC         850 fps 253 ft-lbs
158 gr LSWCHP +P 1,000 fps 351 ft-lbs

I think it was Massad Ayoob who said that police switched to autoloaders to get more bullets, not better bullets.

[ilikeguns]

I guess the confusion came from this box of 357 I got. Its 158 grain at only 1150 fps. BVAC brand. Next time ill look around for tougher stuff.

[Fishslayer]

Thanks guys. Any idea offhand who offers a 1600 fps jhp for 357?

I'm guessing some of the UberExtremeDoubleTactical ammo makers will offer something like that.

JMO, but I stay away from hyper velocity loads like that. I don't have a chrono but most data puts my 158gr JHP w/2400 powder & 125gr JHP w/Bullseye loads anywhere from 1200 - 1400 fps. Those are pretty stout loads.

1600fps is probly going to be with a 110gr JHP and slow powder. That combo has been linked to forcing cone and flame cutting issues, particularly in the M19 S&W.

If you're thinking of those for HD use, might try touching off a few full house .357 at your local indoor range. Then imagine that in your living room with no ear protection. My wheelgun sits in the safe loaded with +P SJHP. I save the big dogs for having fun at the range.

And yes... comparing any 9mm to a full house .357 is kinda silly...

[HalfEvil]

Thats the reason my DE .50AE stays locked up all the time in the house. The act of shooting it indoors would cause to much trauma to the shooter.

[Fishslayer]

Thats the reason my DE .50AE stays locked up all the time in the house. The act of shooting it indoors would cause to much trauma to the shooter.

That is a MAGNIFICENT looking GSD!

Threadjack over. Carry on...

[bayboydray408]

Thats the reason my DE .50AE stays locked up all the time in the house. The act of shooting it indoors would cause to much trauma to the shooter.

alot worse with the 500 mag lol, an average 2200 ft lbs with that

[HalfEvil]

That is a MAGNIFICENT looking GSD!

Threadjack over. Carry on...

Oh you mean this goofy guy? He's a good looking, amazingly fit, well trained Shepherd named Dozer. Just under 100lbs right now.



*thread jack now over*

[toadman]

I've often wondered about that. I forget where, but remember a report stating that the
125grain JHP .357 was among the most reliable police man stoppers. Figuring that most police revolvers are with a 4" barrel, I guessing in the 1,250 fps range.
A 9mm 124 grain +P JHP from your standard Glock or Sig should be fairly close to those .357 figures. So the people that say a 9mm is a piss poor manstopper just didn't sound right to me.

[ilikeguns]

That was my line of thinking. I guess I forgot to think about barrel length though. A 6 inch gp100 will add to the velocity the box of ammo advertises right?

[sevensix2x51]

im thinkin dillon or rcbs would be the best places to find such a hot load...

of course the little ayoob voice in the back of my head always tells me that is a bad idea for shooting bad guys.