S&W 1911s?

[camacho2727]

I do not own a 1911 and want to, is this a good choice given the customer service and warranty? These 1911s are always available, the other choice is Springfield Operater which is hardly available and unless I am not looking in the right places.

[TonyM]

I do not own a 1911 and want to, is this a good choice given the customer service and warranty? These 1911s are always available, the other choice is Springfield Operater which is hardly available and unless I am not looking in the right places.

They are fine, but Springfield's warranty is #1.

I would also consider a Kimber before the S&W. I have a few Kimbers and a few Springfields and they have all been great.

[camacho2727]

Thankyou for the reply, I am a noob, and am looking for honest feedback which is what I always get from this site and its members.

[Old4eyes]

Check out these two sites:

http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=29

http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=56

Those sites are the S&W portion of these 1911 forums.

The are a few things you should know about the Smith line:

1. They use an external extractor. Purists hate that. Kimber had problems with their version, Smith has theirs working OK.
2. They use their version of the Swartz firing pin safety. There are those that believe it's one more thing to go wrong. I believe the model with the titanium firing pin does not have the Swartz safety, but it's not on the California approved list. So it that mechanism bothers you, pass on the Smith.
3. The dovetail cuts are not the standard 1911 size, aftermarket sights need to be Smith specific.

The out of the box reliability for Smiths is reported to be quite good. They have a lifetime warranty, but I am pretty sure that it only applies to the original owner. I know that Springfield's lifetime warranty on the XD's follows the gun, whoever owns it. I believe that is the same for the 1911 line.

The one thing that will drive you nuts is how they name them. They slap SW1911 on the side of all of them. I have a stainless 5 inch with rail. That's a 108303 model. And trying to figure out which model is/is not on the CA approved list is difficult.

The only problem with mine so far is a grip bushing that came loose.
The shop that I frequent only started carrying Kimber because for a while their customer service was sub-par. I have no real world experience but the reputation for Smith and Springfield repair centers is excellent.

I like my Smith and would not hesitate to get another one, possibly the Scandium version of the model I have in stainless steel.

[TKM]

I like mine. I also like my Kimbers but I sold all of my Springfields a few years ago. Right after I bought the Smith.

[Exiledviking]

I have 2 S&W 1911s and I am very fond of 'em.

[Cyc Wid It]

1. They use an external extractor. Purists hate that. Kimber had problems with their version, Smith has theirs working OK.
2. They use their version of the Swartz firing pin safety. There are those that believe it's one more thing to go wrong. I believe the model with the titanium firing pin does not have the Swartz safety, but it's not on the California approved list. So it that mechanism bothers you, pass on the Smith.
3. The dovetail cuts are not the standard 1911 size, aftermarket sights need to be Smith specific.

May I add that their rollmarks are somewhat ugly.

From Hilton Yam:

"Firing pin safeties typically fall into the Colt Series 80 pattern which are actuated by the trigger (Colt Series 80, Para Ordnance, Sig GSR) and the Swartz style safety which is actuated by the grip safety (Kimber, Smith & Wesson). Of all the firing pin safety mechanisms on the market, the original Colt Series 80 - in a Colt - is the most reliable of them all. The platforms utilizing the Swartz safety are a less than ideal choice across the board due to the inherent reliability problems of the design. The Swartz safety is extremely sensitive to the fit of the grip safety to the frame and the timing of the grip safety's trigger blocking arm. Tolerance issues can also lead to a Swartz safety that will time properly when the grip safety is depressed a certain way, and time differently when depressed a different way."

You can buy Springfields w/o firing pin safeties (on roster). The Operators tend to be easier to find out of state. I kept an eye on Gunbroker and Gunsamerica and found some reasonably priced ones both used and new. True you are taking a risk by buying without seeing but if you are careful about it you should be good to go.

[sholling]

I own Kimbers, Springfield Armory and S&W so I'm no brand bigot, however of those I prefer S&W. I'll address a bit of the FUD. S&W's 1911 is very well designed and reliable and their service and support are first rate. The external extractor is nothing at all like Kimber's failed design. Kimber has never been an engineering driven company - they're a marketing driven company. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you produce generic products with pretty finishes and maintain quality control.

On the other hand S&W has always had the benefit of a fine engineering team. Their external extractor works very well, is very reliable, and doesn't need much in the way of maintenance. Yes Kimber and S&W use a Swartz firing pin safety so that they can have outstanding triggers and still pass California's drop test. Springfield's answer was to use a lightweight firing pin with a heavy spring and heavy trigger. You'll need a trigger job to get the same trigger feel that a S&W or Kimber owner enjoys out of the box. But bear in mind that the Swartz system used in them are nothing alike. Kimber's is delicate. So delicate that it's not covered by Kimber's ultra-short warranty. On the other hand S&W's Swartz implementation is built like a tank and is fully covered by S&W's lifetime warranty. I have no fear of my S&W failing me.

In my opinion here's how they stack up:

1. S&W's SW1911s usually have outstanding fit and finish but I can only recommend them in stainless due to complaints about the bluing being a bit thin on the blued models. On average they come with a crisp 4.5-5lb trigger although some have come out of the box with a slightly loose (up & down movement) trigger. Accuracy tends to be excellent and the warranty and service are tied with SA for the best in the business. An excellent all around 1911 that would be even better if they came with night sights.
2. Springer makes a really good if sightly roughly finished pistol in that price class. Those I've shot had good but heavy triggers and accuracy was good. I think of them as a fine reliable fighting 1911 rather than a show piece or a target pistol.
3. Kimber I'm less impressed with mainly because of the short warranty, so-so service, and lightly built Swartz safety design. On the other hand they tend on average to have the best out of the box triggers, and as befits a marketing driven company - a huge choice in finishes and foo-foos. Those I've shot we're very accurate but they aren't my 1st choice for a self defense situation and I'll be replacing current generation Kimber once the list goes bye-bye.

[thomasanelson]

I love mine. I also have(or had) a Colt 1991a1, Paraordnance P14 & RIA. The S&W is by far the "best" IMHO. I have shot Kimbers & Springfields too and have nothing bad to say about them. For me, the price, features and warrany sold me on the Smith.

[Colt]

I have shot them. It seemed OK, but I don't like the external extractor. Of your two choices, I'd prefer the Springfield, but I'm not a fan of their ILS (I don't own one, but have fired Springers).

I prefer Colts, but Springfield makes some good pistols (I love the Pro, or whatever they call that retail version of the FBI pistol).

[camacho2727]

Thank you guys for answering my questions. Thanks for clearing up the whole Swarts fireing pin safety feature, had no idea of the difference between the styles and makers. Again very new and really enjoy shooting at the range, so I will be buying something stock and learning the fundamentals ,then down the road address triggers and other upgrades. I just didn't want to buy something that would be of so so quality or poor customer service.

[M47_Dragon]

Another thumbs up for the S&W 1911s.

I have two and they run beautifully.

[FieldsofFire]

I had one and while it functioned perfectly, I felt that it was not at the same quality level at comparably priced Springfield Armory 1911's or Kimbers. I wouldn't pay more than $800 for one. Unfortunately, I did.

[rgs1975]

I love mine and will never part with it.

[masameet]

I've the same model as Old4eyes. If I were to do it again, I'd get an S&W1911 without the rail. I shoot left-handed and finding a LH holster for a railed 1911 is a pain.

Love my 1911, don't get me wrong. When I first espied it under glass, I thought it the most beautiful hunk of metal and wood I'd ever beheld. In my hands it felt great and fit was near perfection. It's just I didn't know what a rail meant and now, some two years later, I still don't need it as a pistol feature.

As to shooting it, it's great. But I had to learn to love the recoil. Once I did, I found I could shoot much better than some long-time shooters with whom I shot side-by-side. Also in trying out another shooter's super tuned-up SA 1911, I discovered my 1911 could use a trigger job. For sure, wish it had come originally with an ambidextrous safety.