Gun Mods vs. being sued

[halo6941]

I got a ? about something ive heard from some friends etc. If someone breaks into your home and your forced to use deadly force to defend yourself. that you have to empty the clip into the person becuase if you shoot them once or twice then it looks bad on you cuz you intended to shoot them in the first place. as opposed to the empty clip then it looks like you were in fear for your life and had no choice. now I know its a stupid ? but I wanna put this to rest.

[wamphyri13]

lol, well my thoughts on the subject is:

the person should not be breaking into your home in the first place. if someone comes into my home to steal or anything, I immediately consider him/her a threat. and I will neutralize that threat with what ever I have handy (my trusty 1911). There's is a saying in the army: its better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6. that means, if you do get in trouble for what ever reason, at least your not DEAD!

and i do have a modded 1911. its got a light/laser on the rail, extended slide release, rubber grips, and recoil bushings.

1911Operator -
Hey neighbor, buddy. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and I'll tell you why. This is California. Logic doesn't apply here.
Your first line makes perfect sense. Therefore, it doesn't work in California.
Your next two lines are subjective. First in California, you have to PROVE an immediate threat of loss of life to be able to shoot. Remember, there have been cases where the criminal or criminals' family have sued and won because it's California.

While some of what I've said is tongue-in-cheek, unfortunately, it's also true.
While I agree with what you've said, because of our state of residence, it's just not that simple. I was in no way insulting you. Just pointing out where we live. You make perfect sense, and as I pointed out, that's just not gonna fly here!
Ryan

[-hanko]

Remember, there have been cases where the criminal or criminals' family have sued and won because it's California.

Ryan

Ryan, so you're going to cite precedent??...tell us the cases, please.

-hanko

[Jonathan Doe]

I would like to know the credential of Masaad Ayoob. I think he is an LEO and instructor of a firearms academy and a writer. Looks like he wears many hats, and I wonder when he has time for everything. Some things he "preaches" raise questions for me.

If he is an LEO, I wonder where he serves. All the tactics he teaches, and cases he talk about, came from personal experience?

[IEShooter]

Interweb

I've heard the incessant web blather about civil suits and/or criminal prosecution for protecting yourself if you justifiably fear grievous harm or death for your self or your family...it's been on the interweb since I started surfing.

I have yet to have one person cite precedent for such actions.

I'm still waiting.

Ever watch Personal Defense TV on the Sportsman's Channel?

Masaad Ayoob has a recurring segment on there. A few weeks ago he was lecturing against making modifications to carry weapons and advised he has been a paid, expert witness countless times on behalf of gun owners who shot someone in self defense with a weapon that had modifications, only to find themselves being sued in civil court over the matter.

His advice was not to do it as any competent attorney will discover the modificatons and twist the facts in order to make the owner look like a blood thirsty killer out to shoot someone.

You won't go to jail (it's a civil matter, not criminal), but you may very well have to spend a great deal of money defending a lawsuit. I'm sure he'll be happy to fly out to provide expert testimony on your behalf.... $$$$$

Regards,

John

[IEShooter]

Ayoob

I would like to know the credential of Masaad Ayoob. I think he is an LEO and instructor of a firearms academy and a writer. Looks like he wears many hats, and I wonder when he has time for everything. Some things he "preaches" raise questions for me.

If he is an LEO, I wonder where he serves. All the tactics he teaches, and cases he talk about, came from personal experience?

Here's what Wiki says. It is Wiki, so take the accuracy with a grain of salt.

I really don't know much about him, but I do know he's been around a LONG time as I remember reading articles of his over 20 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob

[professorhard]

I got a ? about something ive heard from some friends etc. If someone breaks into your home and your forced to use deadly force to defend yourself. that you have to empty the clip into the person becuase if you shoot them once or twice then it looks bad on you cuz you intended to shoot them in the first place. as opposed to the empty clip then it looks like you were in fear for your life and had no choice. now I know its a stupid ? but I wanna put this to rest.

So your HD gun is an M1 Garand? SKS?



Your post is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Does not even warrant a response. Just delete your account and start over.

[Rockit]

I would like to know the credential of Masaad Ayoob. I think he is an LEO and instructor of a firearms academy and a writer. Looks like he wears many hats, and I wonder when he has time for everything. Some things he "preaches" raise questions for me.

If he is an LEO, I wonder where he serves. All the tactics he teaches, and cases he talk about, came from personal experience?

http://www.ayoob.com/AboutMas.html

I didn't see that he is sworn LEO. I think it's all book smart/research/training.
Does he have any real world experience?

[halo6941]

So your HD gun is an M1 Garand? SKS?



Your post is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Does not even warrant a response. Just delete your account and start over.

wow thats a really good and thought up answer thanks, I see you put alot of thought into that. I guess you cant read all that well sense I said it was a stupid question to begin with. I guess calguns isnt a place were you can ask questions and hope to get a nice responsive answer from some people.

[professorhard]

wow thats a really good and thought up answer thanks, I see you put alot of thought into that. I guess you cant read all that well sense I said it was a stupid question to begin with. I guess calguns isnt a place were you can ask questions and hope to get a nice responsive answer from some people.

Sorry, I was really hoping that it wasn't a serious question and that you were just joking. If you want to know the answer, start your own thread and ask it, don't thread jack the OP.

[-hanko]

Masaad Ayoob has a recurring segment on there. A few weeks ago he was lecturing against making modifications to carry weapons and advised he has been a paid, expert witness countless times on behalf of gun owners who shot someone in self defense with a weapon that had modifications, only to find themselves being sued in civil court over the matter.

Regards,

John

I AM BEATING MY HEAD INTO A BRICK WALL. ONE MORE TIME, this time with a little comprehension...

If it's 'countless times' it might be novel to cite a case or two or three, particularly one where shooter lost BECAUSE he modified the gun or used reloaded ammo.

I've asked him face-to-face twice. Both times it was "I'll get back to you by email asap"...still waiting. Several more emails to him got no replies.

Being sued in civil court by an actor's family is not uncommon, modified gun or not. If you read Mas' books, that is definitely a very possible unintended consequence.

If you are sued, you do have to pay for your defense. Liability insurance is not expensive, if that's your worry.

So, IEShooter, got a cite or not??

-hanko

[halo6941]

Sorry, I was really hoping that it wasn't a serious question and that you were just joking. If you want to know the answer, start your own thread and ask it, don't thread jack the OP.

I hear ya

[NiteQwill]

There has been no case, or has one ever been cited on any gun forum I frequent from here to THR to ARFCOM, that has been brought against a person who modified and used their gun in SD/HD.

Come on folks! Stop talking out your fifth point of contact. Mod your guns to your heart's content, abide by the laws and, if necessary and godforbid, use it to protect your life. It's as simple as that.

[Jonathan Doe]

I examined MANY LEO's guns for those who were involved in shooting. I found some guns modified with light trigger. I have never heard of it being an issue at a court. Departmental issue for modifying department issued guns? Yes.

[SixPointEight]

The people worried about this triviality may well be part of the subset that talk themselves into jail - they're showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem.

If the guy's dead, and you intended it, and were in rational fear life/limb of you/yours, you'll come out OK. If you intended - and said you did (with/thru attorney) - there's no issue about safeties, trigger pull, sights, etc. The argument switches from "Did you kill him" to "was it justified", and that's generally not that hard to support - esp in your own home, esp if it's a front-entry wound.

The people that put themselves in jail on a manslaughter charge are the ones that say "It was accidental, I was ready to shoot him but it went off..." etc.

BTW, Mas Ayoob has had some problems in his testimony in past - I barely remember.

Glad that you said this. Nice to see somebody in the know weigh in on that. Do I use reloads in my handgun? No, because I haven't done enough to be confident in them. Would I if I had no Gold-Dots, or only had my AR15? Of course.