Beginner Seeking Advice, Info

[rkt88edmo]

Thanks for the replies. Could you reccomend any shops that would be good for slightly intimidated newbies like myself? Someplace welcoming to sort it all out, walk me through it. My budget's definetly gonna be closer to around 400-500, hope that's workable. I don't have a problem buying used. Should I?

1 - Take a class where the instructor(s) will let you fire a few different handguns (call and ask/confirm with them) $60-150

2 - Get a new or used .22, probably Ruger or Browning $200-300

3 - Buy 1000 rds of .22 and go to the range a few times $60

Consider a shotgun? The mossberg combo gun is $220 at Big 5.

[Ericthenorse]

Actually... there is no law in Oakland ...that I know of ... prohibiting gun sales in oakland... They conveniently got around that by leavying a huge tax on all items sold at a gun store... Making it extremely unprofitible to run a buisness. I had been waiting for a diamond hone that they ordered for me at one of the two remaining stores (telegraph and 40th) and the tax crap passed before it arrived. I went to pick it up, and it was $20 more... You can not purchase guns in oakland by default, because there are no gun stores at which to buy them..

[ryang]

if you deside on one i recommend a ruger mark II or III

I wouldn't recommend a Ruger. I like them to shoot, hate them to clean. One thing to keep in mind when purchasing a gun is what is it like to dissasemble for cleaning. The Rugers have very bad ergonomics in that regard.

A great .22 for self defense training (not actual defense) is a Walther P22. It has all the features of a defensive weapon in .22 caliber.

[ryang]

Do NOT rent the Les Baer Thunder Ranch they have there. You will never be happy with any gun that's less than $2500 afterwards.

The TRS is more like $1600. When I shot it at Reed's I actually was not impressed. I considered the Kimber TLE a better value. The SRP is another matter.

[J09]

Thanks, guys. Guess I'll start calling around tomorrow about the HSC. With so many a**holes on messageboards, I wasnt sure what to expect going to a gun forum. Thanks for pleasantly surprising me.

[Inoxmark]

You don't need HSC to rent a gun. I agree that it's absolutely essential that you rent and shoot several guns first. You might just be able to decide exactly what gun you want and go buy one with your mind already made up. If you know what you want you are not going to be intimidated by salespeople.

Shooting Gallery in Vacaville rents to single visitors, at least they used to.

[fat_frog]

Hello... I'm new, too...

I am in the same situation as... I recently took a safety class at Reed's, and I want to take a Defensive Pistol class from http://www.awt-co.com/ in the near future.

As I was in touch with Walt Marshall from AWT via email, here's what he said.

I would not buy a 22 pistol. I would start with a pistol I am going to train with. ... who tell students to buy a 22[?]. Reason, get use to recoil. There is really none with the 22. You cannot get use to recoil by using a 22. You get use to recoil by shooting the gun that recoils. I would buy no less that a 9 mm....

Personally, I agree with what he said... Shooting a 22 pistol in the safety class was VERY fun, but 22 will not help me to get used to recoil. I think that I'd rather spend $200-300 on ammo to get used to my own pistol that I (hopefully) regularly use than buying a 22 pistol. I'm sure there's nothing wrong w/ buying a 22 caliber pistol if you intend to keep shooting, of course. But, buy a 22 while you find a pistol that you really want seems to be an expensive way to go?

[rkt88edmo]

That is pretty interesting. The suggestion for getting a .22 is for improving basic marksmanship; with the core elements of marksmanship being sight picture, sight alignment, trigger press, & follow through. Many people find it easier to focus on those issues without adding recoil management to the mix.

Being used to recoil won't necessarily help your marksmanship, but will help you get back on target more quickly. Marksmanship is just a component in the over all self defense equation and being a marksman doesn't mean you will be able to defend yourself.

If you are going to take Walt's class, might as well take his advice

In the end, I don't think that recoil is that big a deal unless you are shooting really powerful stuff.

[ryang]

I've taken Walt's 2-day pistol course. The emphasis there is defensive pistol use which as someone else mentioned may not have much to do with marksmanship.

Semi-humorous anecdote: Most of the shooting at Walt's class is on the 7 yard line at silhouettes. Several times Mark would point at my target where I placed double-taps within 2" of each other and say, "Nice shooting. Now stop doing that." His point was shots should be within a hand's span of each other but not too close so you'd have a larger temporary cavity.

Any competent scientist or engineer would tell you to limit the variables you're changing in order to better understand what effect each has. I'm a big proponent of learning marksmanship (grip, sight picture, trigger control) first and transition to learning how to control recoil (jerking, anticipating) second.

A cheap way to learn the former is with an air pistol. They're accurate enough for marksmanship training and cheap/weak enough to practice lots at home.

I also think a good way to learn the latter is with a six-shot revolver loaded with five rounds. But that is a slower route to overall proficiency with a self-defense weapon.

[rkt88edmo]

But, buy a 22 while you find a pistol that you really want seems to be an expensive way to go?

The .22 is less expensive to buy to begin with and shooting it to develop your skills costs less over time. When you look at firearm prices, the initial costs seems large, but as you continue to shoot the cost of ammunition will eclipse the cost of the gun.

All prices are approximate bulk/walmart prices:

.22lr is ~$20 /1,000rds.
9mm is ~$100/1,000rds.
.40S&W is ~$150/1,000rds.
.45ACP is ~$200/1,000rds.

[fat_frog]

I don't mean to hijack J09's thread, but treelogger's description on AWT Defense Pistol class sounds really somthing that I'd like to learn in the near future.

From the way I live my daily life, the chances of really applying what I can learn from the Defense Pistol class would be close to none for the rest of my life (I try really hard to avoid troubles...), but to me...knowing what to do in situations makes me feel good.

If I'm shooting about 800 rounds in 2 days, I prefer to be using my own pistol... That sounds like a great opportunity to really get used to the pistol that I keep around.

Walt only present for 1/2 day of the 2-day class

...Does he really show up only 1/2 day? What did you think of the quality of the class w/o Walt? Still excellent? Worth every penny?