Open cary at the office. Loaded? Loaded store?

[markol0]

I own a small company. We have an office where I would like to add some additional security beyond the video cameras and the panic button. I have done some searches, but really cannot find anything on the subject, so thought I would turn here.

I, and a few of my employees own some handguns. None of us have any CCW permits of course. None of us are licensed in any sort of security or anything like that. What does the law state about having them at the office that we rent.

1. Can I UOC at my office? All signs point to yes. There are no schools within the bubble that I know of.

2. Can I LOC (Loaded open carry). In the event some one decides to rob the place, I would like to be able to do something about it. Condition 1 would probably be the mode of carrying.

3. Can I store a weapon on the premises? Does it have to be locked? Can it be loaded?

4. What would you as a customer think if you walked into a retail type establishment and saw the owner and some employees with a holster on their hip? Probably wrong type of crowd to ask.

Thanks for any advice.

[nn3453]

Can't answer #4, but 1, 2 and 3 are yes if you own the business. Someone who is less lazy than I am can link the PC.

[cineski]

Considering you're in the middle of the SF peninsula, I'd venture to say that'd be a mistake as a business owner to openly carry a gun. Just like putting a big sign out front that says impeach Obama. As for you as the owner of said company, I believe you can CCW on the premise. Do not do so because I said so because I don't own a store front and don't know precise laws. IMO, CCW > any open carry.

[DDG]

I agree with the comments about customer perception in your part of the state. I don't know what business you're in. Maybe your customers are naturally more conservative. But if your customers are representative of the general area, you will probably scare many away by being one of “those gun crazy wackos”. You may not agree with their politics, but you'll gladly take their money.

IMO – I would keep them out of site, but easily accessible

[dousan]

for being in california, i'd say go with #3
no one knows but your employees and yourself.

id also say have everyone take a safety course or something that would relate to a emergency situation so there's no mistakes

carrying, in almost any metro area of CA i think it would hurt your business more then help it. too many anti-gun people in CA. unfortunately.

[ParallaxTactical.com]

I believe this is the relevant PC:

The purpose of enacting this measure is to abrogate the holding in People v. Melton,
206 Cal.App.3d 580, insofar as that decision purports to require the issuance of a
concealed weapons permit in order to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person, whether openly or concealed, within the places
mentioned in Section 12026 of the Penal Code, by an individual who has a proprietary,
possessory, or substantial ownership interest in the place.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...oncealed_Carry

Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in any lawful
business, including a nonprofit organization, or any officer, employee,
or agent authorized by that person for lawful purposes connected with
that business, from having a loaded firearm within the person's place
of business, or any person in lawful possession of private property from
having a loaded firearm on that property.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Unlicensed_Concealed_Carry#Semi_Public_Places_Restrictions

[SJgunguy24]

CA penal code 12026, your GTG unless there is specific wording in your lease/rental contract the prohibits you from carrying. I would CCW though, the people around the bay area get freaked unless your a cop or a dirtbag and have a gun.
BTW, I carry at work and home.

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031

[Hayashi Killian]

You may open carry or concealed carry while within your place of business or home, loaded or unloaded. As long as your employees have your permission they can do the same. However if they step outside your store and are either loaded openly carrying or concealed carrying they just committed a crime. It's only legal to do so while within your business.

Edit: I forgot to add, it depends upon your type of business whether or not it's a good idea to concealed or open carry. If you run a high-risk business, open carry might be better due to the natural deterrent factor it has. However if your biggest worry is some yoohoo coming in and starting to trash the place, getting physical, then concealed carry is the route to go.

[Once A Marine]

Strike UOC from your list - it does nothing to improve your security posture. The law seems to be in your favor for concealed carry, but I'm certainly no lawyer, so you'll probably want to check with one.

You might also want to look into possible impact on any insurance policies you might have for your business, also.

[Crovax]

If you're in SF I would not OC because you don't want to hurt the viability of your business. The city is so far to the left that you'd probably have picketers out there within a few days.

Because you are the owner I would CCW if you are looking for added protection.

I'm not sure what your relationship is with your employees. If they're level headed and you trust them (and it's legal) then I would allow them to do the same. The problem with OC is you don't know how someone will react (customers or employees) if everyone in the store is visibly strapped.

[markol0]

Thank you all for the advice. Much appreciated. By the looks of things, and by the pertinent PC chapters quoted, seems that CCW is the best way to go. I completely agree that OC is a problem in this area, and would scare off a whole lot of customers if I start strutting around the office in civvies (jeans and t-shirt) with a holster out.

Now the question becomes which pistol to get. I own an HK USP in .45 which is way too big to CCW. I am thinking something much smaller in 9mm. Any advice? Price is not really an issue.

[bsg]

possibly a G26 for every day, all day concealment.

[markol0]

bsg, thank you for the advice. No disrespect, but no Glock please. I want to have as much active active safety as I can get. This is a warehouse/office kind of situation so I don't want to go bumping against anything on accident and having some accidental discharge.

So far doing some heavy reading/research and thinking HK USP Compact in 9mm or 40S&W as ideal options.

[Sobriquet]

Marko, since you've obviously got assets to protect, I think the prudent thing to do would be to have at least a short conversation with a recommended firearms attorney. Besides definitively answering the questions you asked here, you'd have a number to call should the worst happen. Whether that's worth 30-60 minutes of their rate, I'll leave up to you.

About the gun, I'm an HK guy myself. If you're used to the USP and train to sweep that safety off on the draw, I suggest you stick with the same manual of arms. That pretty much puts you into a USP Compact or (if you're willing to pay a premium for finding one) and HK45 Compact. The latter is not on the Roster for sale, so you'll have to buy it private party from someone who acquired it legally.

Assuming for a moment you do not want to go the HK45c route, your real choice is caliber. If we were in a state that didn't limit us to 10 rounds, I'd suggest the 9mm and call it a day. However, given the 9mm limit, I see absolutely no reason to purchase the USPc in 9mm over the .40S&W given they have the same capacity. Both would hold 10 rounds and I see no reason to choose a smaller round over a bigger one if the capacity is the same.

I'll throw one more wrench into the mix. The USP Compact in .45 holds 8 rounds plus one in the chamber. It is, however, compatible with the 10 round magazines from the full size HK45 (see here: http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.ph...371&viewfull=1).

Bottom line? If you're willing to carry a spare magazine (which you should in the unlikely event of a double feed), I'd go with a USPc in .45 with the 8 round mag in the gun and a spare 10 round. If you're not going to carry a spare, or if you just want 10 rounds to begin with, I'd go with the USPc in .40S&W.

Also make sure you take training from a qualified instructor on self-defense shooting and drawing from concealment. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

[MossbergMan]

Off topic but I couldn't ignore this....

Please. really?

"This is a warehouse/office kind of situation so I don't want to go bumping against anything on accident and having some accidental discharge."

This is pure ignorance. Glockaphobia. Chose the handgun you want, but chose it for a more realistic reason, like weapon retention/safety or I'm a dufuss that can't keep my finger off the trigger so I NEED a crutch.
Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Glocks are carried daily world wide by uniformed, plainclothed officers and civilians without incident. Some of these people actually fight with felons that want to take their Glocks and kill them with it, yet it doesn't happen nor do they bump into things and have "accidental discharges".

IF... the trigger guard is covered in the holster and/or your finger is not on the trigger, the Glock WILL NOT fire, period.

So if you feel better with a manual safety, then so be it, get one, but get it for the right reason(s) not for this non-sense.