What's going on? (1911 RIA Tactical)

[ak4777]

Am I just new to this? I mean I've been shooting rifles and shotguns very well but handguns...*sigh*. Is it normal for a brand new handgun not to be sighted in at the factory? And if they are...whats the standard distance? (only should matter for elevation right?)

Anyways Im sure a lot of you know I picked up a new 1911, still having problems with it. So did some more range tests, and I realized that for some reason no matter what, my bore sighter will not give me my true point of aim. Now its not the bore sighter because on my AK and my 10/22 I can hit a quarter sized bullseye from 40-50 yards out. I always set my sight to bore sight center, but when I go out to the range it always hits to the left, like a good 4-5 inches at only 10-15 yards!

Now I took some pics of what I think may be the problem. It seems like the damn front sight wasn't even centered correctly from the factory. Is this regular? I mean i set my rear post many times, and at one time it seemed to be shooting great, until I moved my target back maybe 3 more yards and wham I'm off by another 2 inches.

I have shot handguns many times before and I know that I rock my hand very little when I fire beacuse I do dry fire practice. So its not really my error...i mean maybe slightly but...not to when it shows over 50-60 rounds worht of shots that its gong to the left. Give me some judgment.

Oh I also took pics of my extractor and such, one with the bullet chambered and barrel fully pushing against the cartridge, and one with the bullet pulled out as far as possible. Check the small gap between cartridge and slide.

[derek@thepackingrat.net]

If we're assuming that you're shooting to the left, the front sight favoring left is not likely the problem. In fact, if your front sight is favoring left, the POI is actually going to be to the right; assuming no change with the rear sight.

If the POI is just a few inches, I think it's a shooter issue.

As long as the extractor isn't riding against the casing when chambered, you're good to go. The gap is normal.

[gotgunz]

Bring it north about 35 mins and we can compare it to my RIA tactical and see if its the gun or you.

One way to eliminate one possible factor and confirm or deny the gun has issues.

[JanG]

are you pressing the trigger with the meat of finger or the joint? try changing the position of your finger on the trigger and see if anything changes.

[brassburnz]

Check out this link. It's a pistol shooter's error analysis target.

http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Pistol_Shot_Analysis.pdf

It sounds like you do not have your trigger finger placed correctly on the trigger. This is a common error that is easily corrected.

Do you know the weight of the trigger pull? 4-5 pounds is good for general purpose shooting. 3.5 pounds is the legal limit for NRA Conventional Pistol (bullseye). A heavy pull will make right handed shooters shoot to the left, especially if they have improper placement of their finger.

Also, when dry firing with iron sights, you should not detect any movement of the sights at all. You need to maintain that sight picture for as long as possible after the sear breaks. That's called follow through.

If you want to know if the problem is either you or the gun, shoot a few groups with a Ransom Rest or have a good bullseye shooter shoot your gun.

[ak4777]

Wow, thanks for the replies guys, you guys all have really good points here.

The thing is...

Okay the whole front sight not having to be aligned, that really sucks because...if its not in conjunction with the barrel, yes it will initially make me shoot right...but once it hits that point of intersection with the line of sight and line of travel of barrel, anything past it will shoot left...understand my drift?

Heres an illustration.

Sorry! I mean to the right initially, then to the left.

The only reason this bugs me is because I sometimes go indoor range (7-15 yard shots) and then sometimes I go out to this outdoor place where sometimes I do 20-30 yard shots. Now I can't always adjust my gun, especially with those dovetails...pretty annoying! I would prefer something that shoots straight even with longer range...just elevation compensation...LIKE A NORMAL GUN!

I have done all the dry fire stuff, with 9mm and 40's I can get a good 2-3 inch group going at 10 yards. I honestly think its the sights being off and the change in range. (nice rhyme eh?) But...help me!! I have been getting such crappy accuracy (although my groups are still good)

[hierro]

I had a similar problem with my 1911. No matter what I was hitting 4-5 inches left of my point of aim. I stopped shooting and fired off a few thousand shots of airsoft at a gel target in the living room. My friends thought I was nuts, my kids thought it was great shooting in the house, and my wife went nuts with the constant pop, reload, pop. I don't know if it was a flinch, or improper finger placement but when my wife had had enough and told me to get out of the house and shoot the real thing the problem was gone.

[derek@thepackingrat.net]

To my knowledge, this would be correct for sights or optics that are offset to the side - like a Mosin Nagant side scope mount. The scope is often off set to the left of the receiver where it's off the bore axis entirely. If it's mounted to left and zeroed at 100 yards, POI will shift to the right of target as you you hit targets further than the 100 yd. zero.

The sights on your RIA is on the bore axis. The sights might be off and errors are exacerbated by the distance; however, the rear sight is moved in the SAME direction you wish to move the point of impact. The front sight moves the opposite direction.

The front sight not being centered isn't an indication of a bad zero . "Mechanical zero" does not always guarantee zero.

Wow, thanks for the replies guys, you guys all have really good points here.

The thing is...

Okay the whole front sight not having to be aligned, that really sucks because...if its not in conjunction with the barrel, yes it will initially make me shoot right...but once it hits that point of intersection with the line of sight and line of travel of barrel, anything past it will shoot left...understand my drift?

Heres an illustration.

Sorry! I mean to the right initially, then to the left.

The only reason this bugs me is because I sometimes go indoor range (7-15 yard shots) and then sometimes I go out to this outdoor place where sometimes I do 20-30 yard shots. Now I can't always adjust my gun, especially with those dovetails...pretty annoying! I would prefer something that shoots straight even with longer range...just elevation compensation...LIKE A NORMAL GUN!

I have done all the dry fire stuff, with 9mm and 40's I can get a good 2-3 inch group going at 10 yards. I honestly think its the sights being off and the change in range. (nice rhyme eh?) But...help me!! I have been getting such crappy accuracy (although my groups are still good)

[Arondos]

I own a tactical. When I first got mine I was shooting left.

Spent the day out at Manteca sportman's club and shot I think it was 350 rounds (getting my break in done). As the day went on my shooting left vanished. Next time I went to the range I was shooting left again. I was in the F1/2 area for shooting errors. Worked on my grip and trigger pull and pretty much got rid of the problem. I think I was trying to grip way to hard because I had gotten used to shooting .22 and I was trying to hang on to tightly.

[kermit315]

The sights on your RIA is on the bore axis. The sights might be off and errors are exacerbated by the distance; however, the rear sight is moved in the SAME direction you wish to move the point of impact. The front sight moves the opposite direction.

The front sight not being centered isn't an indication of a bad zero . "Mechanical zero" does not always guarantee zero.

This. Print a copy of the shooter diagnosis chart and shoot the copy. That will help you in figuring out what exactly is going on.

[Greg-Dawg]

Have someone proficient in pistols shoot it or send it back to RIA to get it fixed.

[HCz]

My RIA tactical had front sight problems too. Blade was leaning a bit to right hand side. I really don't care since I will replace the sights anyways.

[Fot]

Is that picture of the front sight before or after you moved ?


I would suggest letting someone else shoot the gun.. Also take some shots from a good bench rest.
Shooting top the left(and low) is usually operator error.

[ak4777]

All that was untouched, and still is. I did mess around with the rear sight though. I just want the sights to be directly on the bore axis...like a normal gun...that depends only on elevation as distance increases. I don't wanna have to sight my gun in at different distances, especially windage. I don't feel safe with this handgun being my personal defense if its off by windage that is distance dependent.

I did spend a good day or two at the range, and I even did trick shots where I stick in a random snap cap to see if I flinch. I do not. Now I'm not saying im a perfect shooter, but like I said I never had this probelm with other pistols, even .45 cal. Im thinkin I should just use a micrometer to set it exactly in the center.

If I want to adjust my sights, the front one, all I do is tap it right? There is no pin holding it in place or anything right?

[Shenaniguns]

ei9htzer0 is on the money...