What ammo does the LAPD and the CHP use?

[Dubels]

I just use mines and IEDs. If they want to sue me it is fine. The intruder wasn't welcomed in my home if they break in I have a right to self defense.

[garuda7]

I plan on purchasing HD rounds for my 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, and my .45 ACP. Since I keep hearing that it would be more legally sound to use what the local constable use, does anyone know what type/brand of ammunition that the LAPD and the CHP are authorized to use?

I heard from a very credible source that they use Federal Hydra-shoks.

[SoCalDep]

Last I saw LAPD was issuing Winchester Ranger-T 147gr 9mm and Federal HST .45, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went exclusively to the Federal load.

LASD issues/authorizes the Winchester Ranger-T 147gr 9mm or 230gr .45.

Personally I think that all that court/ammo stuff is BS. A good expert witness can quash that argument real fast. Some will suggest against home reloads, and I can see where that might be an issue, particularly if you don't have any of that "load" left to be tested for trial.

If it's factory, it should be good. In fact, it's a tactically sound idea as well. Major ammo from major manufacturers is likely to have better quality control for better accuracy, reliability, and the ballistic performance has been tested to a greater extent than smaller manufacturers and reloaders.

[Synergy]

My exes father was retired LAPD. All his ammo from work was Winchester Ranger T-Series. This may have changed in the last 5 years or so.

[CSACANNONEER]

If it's factory, it should be good. In fact, it's a tactically sound idea as well. Major ammo from major manufacturers is likely to have better quality control for better accuracy, reliability, and the ballistic performance has been tested to a greater extent than smaller manufacturers and reloaders.

LMAO! I can't believe that anyone who know much about firearms and ammo would believe this for a second. If your statement was true, there are many world record holders who must not know this. I'm sure that there are not too many top competitors who use factory ammo unless they are sponsored by an ammo manufacturer. Good reloads will out perform factory ammo and great reloads will really out perform factory ammo.

[advocatusdiaboli]

It isn't just FUD at all. It had (note the past tense) in Arizona I believe set a legal precedent. A man shot a homeless person harassing him. Unfortunately, he used 10mm while local law enforcement used less powerful calibers. So the DA argued that using a caliber any more powerful than law enforcement was excessive force. The guy was convicted of manslaughter. Fortunately it was overturned on appeal. But, for history's sake, that is why the rule of thumb got started--to avoid DAs claiming you used excessive force by looking at just your caliber not the facts of the situation. The good guys prevailed but it was close for a while. It just goes to show you this: where you choose to live determines your peers and they will set the standards by which you are judged. Think that through it is important and may one day determine the course of your life.

[Jonathan Doe]

??????? Yea, I've heard this type of FUD too but, I've never seen or heard of a case were it made a difference. A buddy of mine who does forensic firearms testing (not topgun7 or even in his dept.) told me to use hard cast lead instead of jacketed ammo.

I thought I was your buddy???

I use 9mm Winchester RA9T ammo. For 45 Auto I use RA45T, not even a +P. All these +P and stopping power is overrated as far as my experience is concerned. Also, I have not seen or heard the type of ammo becomes an issue at the court. Use whatever ammo you have on hand for self defense.

[SoCalDep]

LMAO! I can't believe that anyone who know much about firearms and ammo would believe this for a second. If your statement was true, there are many world record holders who must not know this. I'm sure that there are not too many top competitors who use factory ammo unless they are sponsored by an ammo manufacturer. Good reloads will out perform factory ammo and great reloads will really out perform factory ammo.

Yes...If you pay the price, or if YOU reload them, and if YOU know what you are doing. I've seen the results of lots of blown up guns. All but one of them (A Bersa .380 blown up by Fiochi ammo...I think it was a squib...) was blown up by reloaded ammo.

[advocatusdiaboli]

I'll post again since you guys didn't read it seems--at least read it...

It isn't just FUD at all. It had (note the past tense) in Arizona I believe set a legal precedent. A man shot a homeless person harassing him. Unfortunately, he used 10mm while local law enforcement used less powerful calibers. So the DA argued that using a caliber any more powerful than law enforcement was excessive force. The guy was convicted of manslaughter. Fortunately it was overturned on appeal. But, for history's sake, that is why the rule of thumb got started--to avoid DAs claiming you used excessive force by looking at just your caliber not the facts of the situation. The good guys prevailed but it was close for a while. It just goes to show you this: where you choose to live determines your peers and they will set the standards by which you are judged. Think that through it is important and may one day determine the course of your life.

Arizona might have fixed this, but if you think the PRK might not try this in some jurisdictions, then you are betting your future on a bad bet.

[Jonathan Doe]

"A man shot a homeless person harassing him. Unfortunately, he used 10mm while local law enforcement used less powerful calibers. So the DA argued that using a caliber any more powerful than law enforcement was excessive force."

I personally think it is pretty ignorant case on the DA's part. I think any competent defense attorney can beat the case anyways. So, if the LEO uses a 9mm and a person shoots a 40 cal. at the bad guy, is it excessive force? If the officer uses 9mm and the man shoots the bad guy with 38 Special +P is excessive force? I don't get their mind set.

Better yet, if the LEO uses 9mm subsonic ammo and I use 9mm +P ammo, is it a bad thing? Wow. What if some LEO's use 9mm and some use 45? If a shooter uses 40 cal or something in between, is he in violation by using excessive force?

[advocatusdiaboli]

think any competent defense attorney can beat the case anyways.

The point is, which you seem to have missed is this: they didn't beat it and the guy was convicted for manslaughter. Look, I am not advocating that was right for Christ sakes, I am just explaining where the rule of thumb about using the same calibers as local law enforcement comes from. Jesus. Maybe I should just let you all remain ignorant and not contribute to the community for all the misdirected grief I get for trying to help.

[CSACANNONEER]

I thought I was your buddy???

Yea, but I'm not a one firearms' forensic examiner kinda guy. OK, so the other guy only does it part time. Does that make you feel better?

Yes...If you pay the price, or if YOU reload them, and if YOU know what you are doing. I've seen the results of lots of blown up guns. All but one of them (A Bersa .380 blown up by Fiochi ammo...I think it was a squib...) was blown up by reloaded ammo.

Do you remember the bad batch of Remington .223 that destroyed several CGer's guns a year or two ago? It can happen with any ammo. I prefer to knowing that it's my life on the line and it's my fault if my reloads don't function. BTW, I've had two ruptured cases using factory ammo. One was Winchester 9mm (long before WWB was ever produced) and the other was a round of Eley.

I personally think it is pretty ignorant case on the DA's part. I think any competent defense attorney can beat the case anyways. So, if the LEO uses a 9mm and a person shoots a 40 cal. at the bad guy, is it excessive force? If the officer uses 9mm and the man shoots the bad guy with 38 Special +P is excessive force? I don't get their mind set.

Better yet, if the LEO uses 9mm subsonic ammo and I use 9mm +P ammo, is it a bad thing? Wow. What if some LEO's use 9mm and some use 45? If a shooter uses 40 cal or something in between, is he in violation by using excessive force?

The Hollywood Shoot-Out comes to mind.

[SoCalDep]

Do you remember the bad batch of Remington .223 that destroyed several CGer's guns a year or two ago? It can happen with any ammo. I prefer to knowing that it's my life on the line and it's my fault if my reloads don't function. BTW, I've had two ruptured cases using factory ammo. One was Winchester 9mm (long before WWB was ever produced) and the other was a round of Eley.

I've seen bad factory ammo as well, and I don't fault you for using reloads. I don't reload, and I wouldn't trust myself for a while until I got good at it. I don't trust other people's reloads and prefer to go with factory ammo. That's why I qualified it with knowing what "you" are doing. In my situation, and others who don't reload, I'd recommend factory ammo. If you have the experience and confidence, there's that saying....If you want it done right....

[Jonathan Doe]

I know a case of factory ammo from a well known company has blown up several barrels a few years ago. It happens. So, always be careful when you choose your ammo.

[robert101]

advocate, I appreciate the information. I think all of us hear so much contradiction from uninformed sources that we tend to be over saturated by garbage. More information from informed people is needed and welcomed.