A Knock On Weapon Lights and Lasers

[Guest]

**This paragraph is an edit to my original post. It is only derived from my experience from some extensive force-on-force SIM training that I have done at night, both indoors and outdoors, using all types of lighting systems and methods. I am by no means an expert, and these are just my thoughts and observations on the matter of weapon mounted lights. I am new here and I am sure I have more to learn from you than you do me, but that does not mean I do not know something of value**

I see lots of threads about weapon lights, and there seems to be a lot of fans of these lights. I will admit, they do look "cool", but........

We train tactically with LOTS of night shoots (indoors in the dark too, going through doorways, etc) including force-on-force using SIM guns.
Most **** happens at night, and if you are the only one with a high powered flashlight, you have a definite advantage, darkness is YOUR friend!
The big problem with a weapon light is that it is a BULLET MAGNET. I made that big and bold hoping you will remember that phrase.
I suppose a weapon light is OK against an unarmed person, but what if your opponent is armed?
Basically you hold your weapon center of your own mass.
When blinded by a light in a gunfight, I just shoot at the light, you might not even see me yet, but I know exactly where you are.
With a handheld, you can move the light all around, low, high, left, right, overhead, keeping it away from your center mass.
Using a technique called "Firefly", which is a quick flicking of the light on and off (NOT strobe function) while moving all around is really disorienting to your opponent.
To be most effective, once you have identified your threat, keep the light directly in his eyes! With a weapon light, this means you have to be pointing your weapon into his eyes, NOT a lot of target there.
With a handheld, you can keep the light directly in his eyes and yet be aiming at his center mass.
One more bad thing about weapon lights, you should not point your weapon at something until you have identified it as a threat. With a weapon light, your muzzle has to pointed in the direction of the light.
With adrenaline flowing (and trust me, it will be), it might be best to identify your potential target as a threat before you go pointing your gun at it!
Maybe your daughter lost her keys and rather then wake you, she decides to climb through her bedroom window. You know she is not home, you hear the noise and grab your gun with weapon light to go check things out. Do you really want to find yourself pointing a loaded weapon at your daughter with all that adrenaline flowing in you?
Maybe the noise was outside. So you go outside, turn the corner of your house, weapon high in front of your center mass, and come face to face with two cops who were checking a report of a prowler in the neighborhood. Definitely not a good situation to be in! With a handheld, you can have your weapon at the low ready, at your side or even behind you back if you so choose.

Lasers. Super cool.
Same problems as stated above with one added detriment.
Lasers work best at night, not so good in bright sunlight.
At night, a laser draws this really neat little red line directly back to it's source. Try it sometime with a safe weapon. Have a buddy sweep a safe weapon around in the dark while you are down range. Not for me thank you.

But then again, I could be wrong..............................

[Vin496]

There have been hundreds of threads on this. it always boils down to two trains of thought, that lights/lasers are "bullet magnets", and the other side that states they are useful tools that have to be trained with and used in a smart way.

Almost all will admit you can't just enter an area will the light just blazing on.

[cineski]

Or you can say a weapon light in a HD situation can prevent the accidental death of a member of the family. There was a recent new story of a man who fired at an 'intruder' only to find out it was a family member.

[Swatguy10_15]

Wellllllllllllllllllllll.Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.. I really wouldnt say throwing the weaponlight in the trash is a great idea yet. I would be inclined to say that like any other tool or accessory the training is what matters the most when it come to weaponlights.
Referencing youre scenario above, if you didnt have the weaponlight would you not still be aiming youre weapon at the "threat"? I know Ive personally been trained that in any kind of "unknown threat" scenario the weapons out and you are very much ready to defend yourself with it if forced into that decision. Finger firmly on the trigger GUARD hahaha but none the less ready to go. The biggest plus of a light is target or intruder id,"friend or foe" Youve been encountered at night, youre not sure if theyre family or or armed..whatever the situation may be and voila a quick flash of the ole tlr-1 and its now time to chew the daughters butt or make sure the guy who just 459'd youre house doesnt hurt anyone.
Yes, a blazing light or laser is very much a great target. But there are countless situations where a light is a great and essential tool. But along with the weapon and everything else the training is what makes the difference.
Lasers though? Ehhh...Pointless IMHO..Unless its one of our laser sight devices dialed in, zeroed and working in unity with our NVG's..A lasers not really doing much of anything. Except as you stated gicing the person downrange a good referance point to shoot at. Neat seeing others thoughts on the subject though! Above all be safe, train how ya fight and fight how ya train!

[BiggMatt]

Wellllllllllllllllllllll.Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.. I really wouldnt say throwing the weaponlight in the trash is a great idea yet.

I never suggested throwing away a perfectly good weapon light! I'm sure your wife could use it for looking for the keys in the bottom of her purse.

Referencing youre scenario above, if you didnt have the weaponlight would you not still be aiming youre weapon at the "threat"? I know Ive personally been trained that in any kind of "unknown threat" scenario the weapons out and you are very much ready to defend yourself with it if forced into that decision.

No, I would not be aiming my weapon at the threat until the threat is clearly identified. You have been trained to aim your weapon at a threat that has not been identified? To me, aiming means sights on target, center mass making the decision to go to the trigger and kill. You really do this on an unidentified target? That's scary...................

But there are countless situations where a light is a great and essential tool.

A good light is the second best tool you've got!

Thanks for responding and sharing your thoughts!

[B Strong]

I have a Surefire 833 on my G21 housegun.

I don't use the thing as a flashlight, I use it for target identification - shoot/no shoot.

I like the idea of having a light in hand rather than on the piece, but at night, woken up from a sound sleep, I'd rather keep things as simple as possible, and a mounted weapon light does a better job under those circumstances.

[louscamaro91]

I just use my helmet mounted PVS-7. I LOVE to play in the dark.

[coop44]

I'm sure weapon lights have a purpose, just not for me. Never used one in a combat situation, would not want to. My little surefire scorpion stays in the center console of my suv, in case I drop something, or need to read a map. Thats about all the use I have for one.

What happened to being stealthy? How about the bad guys in the light and me lurking in the dark? Your night vision is seriously affected by any source of light and, in effect creates "tunnel vision" with an intensly bright light.

The Darkness is indeed my friend, the best camoflage there is.

[crud]

Every scenario is different right? So have the laser/light on your gun and get the training to use it properly. Then, use it when you need it. You can just leave it off, but it's kinda hard to use it if it's not there.

[zum]

this is how i roll at night

[SanSacto]

Keep your weapon light off until you need it. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[SuperSet]

There's a lot of existing literature on this subject including Vicker's article. He argues pros and cons and if you have a weapon light, use the HV method that they're teaching. The article is worth a read.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/tactical-use-of-white-light/

[JTROKS]

I have a couple of LED type flashlights and I can see the OP's opinion on tactical lights. I have done some practice in holding the flashlight away from the pistol depending on where the target is suspected to be. I like holding the flashlight with my left hand (weak hand) with the thumb and index finger doing most of the flashlight movement to sweep the room. The other hold is strong hand over the forearm of the weak hand with flashlight held by weak hand. This hold will put the flashlight away from your center mass. Like I mentioned, it depends on where the target is so you have to adapt. The best way to stay alive is if you are sure there is/are bad guys in your house, gather all your family members to an area that you can effectively defend, then call the cops and let them know where you are, that you are armed and your intentions. If you have to sweep the area to get to your love ones then you better I.D. your target before putting your finger on the trigger.

[Saym14]

this is how i roll at night

LOL!!

a WL is just another tool in the toolbox. use it wisely.

[BONECUTTER]

There are pros and cons to both. I have PVS-14's so I really don't care what others do.

The biggest con to holding a flashlight in your other hand is the majority of people don't practice shooting with one hand. The majority of people don't train how they fight and they are shocked when things do go right.

The other major con is when you identify your target, lets say thief with a gun and he says don't shoot and drops it. What do you put down to call 911? The gun or the light???