What are the rules?

[BigChev4x4]

I have two pistols that I plan to sell. The first is an old Colt derringer thats older then 50 years. The other is a Ruger Old Army black powder pistol. My question is about selling or shipping these. Can these be shipped or sold from one person to another without a FFL involved?

Thanks,

Greg

[1911 crazed]

From what I know you can only do that if they are long guns and older then 50 years, since you have both hand guns you will need an FFl.

How old is the Black Powder gun? If it is old enough you may be able to sell with no FFL but age is a factor.

When it comes to pistols most of the time you can figure FFL is needed.

I hope that helps, others please add to what I may be missing.

[1911 crazed]

Here is a post a asked the same question on not to long ago. I hope this helps.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=252524

[Jonathan Doe]

Black powder rifles and handguns can be transferred without FFL involved. Had a Remington 1858 revolver delivered to my door from Cabelas a few months ago. If the derringer uses cartridges, it has go through the FFL regardless how old it is.

[BigChev4x4]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like the blackpowder gun can be shipped/sold without FFL but the Colt has me confused. Its a pre 1899 gun but it is chambered in .41 rimfire. One post on there said anything pre 1899 is exempt? Is that the case?

Thanks,

Greg

[TheGunDude]

As far as i can see if it takes a modern centerfire or rimfire cartridge then you have to go through FFL.

the black powder you can ship out no problem,, just be sure you get PROOF of ID! from the buyer! Or you might sell a gun to an underage kid, and require an adult signiture at delivery. Cover your own butt, and be safe.

Oh and nice derringer .41 rimfire is rare. you might want to put that up on gun broker and see what you can really get for it. do some research and see what it is really worth.

TGD

[BigChev4x4]

Thanks again for the info. I post some phots of the Colt Derringer in the C&R section.

Thanks,

Greg

[Mssr. Eleganté]

As far as i can see if it takes a modern centerfire or rimfire cartridge then you have to go through FFL.

If the firearm was manufactured before 1899 then it is considered an antique and can be transfered without an FFL getting involved. It doesn't matter if the gun can take modern ammo.

The "no modern ammo" restriction applies to replicas. So a replica of a Remington Model 1858 revolver qualifies as an antique because it is a muzzle loader. But a replica of a Colt Model 1873 does not qualify as an antique because it takes centerfire cartridges that are available today.

A real Colt Model 1873 made before 1899 qualifies as an antique even if it takes modern centerfire cartridges. The Colt derringer that BigChev4x4 is selling also qualifies as an antique if it was really made before 1899. If it is a modern replica or a post 1898 manufactured original, then it does not qualify as an antique.


Here's the Federal definition of "antique firearm"...

Title 18, Section 921(a)(16)

The term 'antique firearm' means -
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

And here is what California law says about it...

CPC 12001(e) For purposes of Sections 12070, 12071, and paragraph (8) of subdivision (a), and subdivisions (b), (c), (d), and (f) of Section 12072, the term "firearm" does not include an unloaded firearm that is defined as an "antique firearm" in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.