Private party in California..transfers

[opos]

I'm new to the forum and I'm sure this question has been asked over and over...please indulge me on this one..I've tried the search feature and still can't understand a fairly straight forward bit of information.

I live in San Diego. Assume I buy a gun from someone in the San Diego area (private party). We agree to meet at a FFL and handle the transaction...no sweat..private party..face to face transfer...with the appropriate wait and paperwork. No "one gun in 30 days" rule applies..just the 10 day background check period.

Now assume I live in San Diego and want to buy a gun from someone (in California) that lives too far for a face to face meeting at some FFL location. Can that person have the gun shipped (or even ship it himslef) to a FFL in San Diego and have it be considered a "face to face" sale (no 30 day wait "rule", etc) or does it become a "dealer sale" like a used gun coming in from out of state from an out of state FFL to a California FFL? One FFL here said it is not a private party transaction any more if a FFL (even in state) ships to a FFL here...it becomes a "dealer transfer" and has the 30 day period, etc.

Again, if this has been hammered over and over sorry. I'd appreciate clarification if you know for sure...I know lots of folks feel any of this is unfair but I just need clarification.
Many thanks,
Opos

[ke6guj]

I'm new to the forum and I'm sure this question has been asked over and over...please indulge me on this one..I've tried the search feature and still can't understand a fairly straight forward bit of information.

I live in San Diego. Assume I buy a gun from someone in the San Diego area (private party). We agree to meet at a FFL and handle the transaction...no sweat..private party..face to face transfer...with the appropriate wait and paperwork. No "one gun in 30 days" rule applies..just the 10 day background check period.

correct.

Now assume I live in San Diego and want to buy a gun from someone (in California) that lives too far for a face to face meeting at some FFL location. Can that person have the gun shipped (or even ship it himslef) to a FFL in San Diego and have it be considered a "face to face" sale (no 30 day wait "rule", etc) or does it become a "dealer sale" like a used gun coming in from out of state from an out of state FFL to a California FFL? One FFL here said it is not a private party transaction any more if a FFL (even in state) ships to a FFL here...it becomes a "dealer transfer" and has the 30 day period, etc.

not a PPT at that point. Both parties have to go to the same FFL, and be CA-residents, for it to be a PPT. otherwise it is a dealer transfer, as noted, and the one-handgun-a-month rule does apply, as well as the requirement that the handgun be on the Roster of not unsafe handguns as well.

[IrishPirate]

As long as the gun is being sold by another person who isn't a dealer it's PPT. It depends on the dealer if they'll do a straight accross deal or require the seller to put it on consignment first (and then sell it straight to the buyer) to avoid any hassels. not totally sure if they both have to have drivers licenses, thats a grey area that will also depend on the dealer. Doesn't have to be done face to face but if it isn't they might charge more, and no, the one in 30 DOESN'T apply. that only applies to brand new never been owned guns, or guns that are used, but owned by a dealer.

[ke6guj]

As long as the gun is being sold by another person who isn't a dealer it's PPT.

its can only be a PPT transfer if both the seller and buyer both go to the same FFL to do the transfer.

It depends on the dealer if they'll do a straight accross deal or require the seller to put it on consignment first (and then sell it straight to the buyer) to avoid any hassels.

Huh? Why would I need to cosign something with the dealer to sell it to my buyer?

not totally sure if they both have to have drivers licenses, thats a grey area that will also depend on the dealer.

To be a PPT, they both must have CA Identification, either an ID or DL.

Doesn't have to be done face to face but if it isn't they might charge more, and no, the one in 30 DOESN'T apply. that only applies to brand new never been owned guns, or guns that are used, but owned by a dealer.

The 1-in-30 applies to all transfers by a dealer, with certain exceptions. PPT/cosignments are exempt, but other transfers, like a shipped in handgun, are not exempt.

[K5Cruiser]

Listen to what ke6quj is saying, he's steering you in the right direction.

If it is shipped by a private party or by another FFL, to your FFL, it's considered a dealer transfer and the 1 in 30 days applies.

Only a private party transfer (PPT) where both parties meet at the same time at the FFL for a transfer, is not required to wait the 1 in 30 days. You can buy as many as you like in this fashion.

[opos]

Confirms what I understood and was thinking...A face to face in front of one FFL between 2 California residents is the only thing considered a Person to Person transfer...that kind of transfer has the 10 day wait but no rules apply as to a 1 gun in 30 days restriction and also guns "off the list" can be sold in this manner in California....any shipping on other than these details make it a dealer sale...30 day wait...no off list sales and so on...Ain't it fun here?

Thanks to everyone that weighed in on this one...
Opos

[davew]

[QUOTE=K5Cruiser;3269915]Listen to what ke6quj is saying, he's steering you in the right direction.

If it is shipped by a private party or by another FFL, to your FFL, it's considered a dealer transfer and the 1 in 30 days applies.

Only a private party transfer (PPT) where both parties meet at the same time at the FFL for a transfer....QUOTE]

I'm not sure where the requirement that both parties be present at the same time comes from. I can't find any mention of this anywhere in the regs, statutes, or DOJ information. I understand that many FFLs require it as a policy because the DROS requrires them to enter the sellers and buyers CA licence number to complete a PPT, and they want the seller there inase the DROS is denied and they have to return. But as far as I can tell its not a legal requirement. If anybody has information othewise please correct me.

[paul0660]

I can't find a reference to a private party transfer needing to be face to face either. Maybe its a Federal thing?

[davew]

Federal law does not have any concept as PPT via FFL....Its a Cali thing.

[CHS]

I can't find a reference to a private party transfer needing to be face to face either. Maybe its a Federal thing?

It might not technically be a legal requirement, but it's impossible to process a PPT in the DROS software without both parties physical ID's being present.

[MudCamper]

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Buying_from_a_Private_Party_-_PPT

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Buying_from_a_Private_Party_WITHOUT_a_Dealer

[SuperTwinz]

I just did 3 PPTs in a matter of days. There are no PPT limits.

[munkeeboi]

I just did 3 PPTs in a matter of days. There are no PPT limits.

To clarify, there are no limits as a buyer (handguns or long guns)

As a seller, you are still limited to less than 6 transactions for handguns a year, long guns on an infrequent basis.

[IrishPirate]

I can't find a reference to a private party transfer needing to be face to face either. Maybe its a Federal thing?

it's like that because you can PPT to a family member without the "seller" having a CDL, and without them ever being in state. Alot of people dont want to admit that there is a grey area in the law that allows PPT to happen with out of state people who never show up at the FFL. Mostly because they get that info from crappy FFL's who don't fully understand and don't want to deal with the "hassle". The CA DOJ has done a pretty good job of not defining the criteria for a PPT in their laws which is why that grey area exists.

[ke6guj]

it's like that because you can PPT to a family member without the "seller" having a CDL, and without them ever being in state.

but both parties have to be CA-residents, otherwise you've violated federal law. There is no PPT or intrafamily exemption to federal law.

Alot of people dont want to admit that there is a grey area in the law that allows PPT to happen with out of state people who never show up at the FFL.

can you clarify what you mean? That an out-of-state resident can send a firearm to a CA FFL to do a PPT transfer? Unfortunately, the DROS system will not accept an out-of-state ID when doing a DROS. SO, even though it may be legal to do so, the system won't let the FFL do the PPT. And are you saying that since it should be a PPT, that the FFL must do it for the PPT transfer price as well, $25DROS + $10 PPT fee?