Shot in Chest Several times w/ .45 and Survive?

[Rugerdaddy]

From a 1999 article about an incident in Santa Clara........

After several minutes on the range, however, Stevens returned to the club's gun store and shot at the ceiling. He then herded three store employees out the door into an alley, saying he intended to kill them, Morec said.

Unknown to Stevens, one store employee was carrying a .45 caliber handgun concealed beneath his shirt. When Stevens looked away, the employee fired, hitting Stevens several times in the chest and bringing him to the ground.

The employee kept his gun trained on Stevens until police arrived, Morec said. When
Stevens refused to comply with police demands that he show his hands, he was shot again with several rounds of rubber bullets.

Morec said Stevens was taken to a hospital where he was listed in critical condition from the initial gun wounds.

Does anyone remember this incident? Is it true that this guy was hit in the chest several times with a .45 and still survived? Or, is this another of many cases where the press gets a story completely screwed up?

[donger]

I think it was up in the Santa Clara area IIRC. I remember something on THR or TFL regarding this incident. The individual who fired upon the assailant was an employee who was packing and was sued by the badguy afterwards.

[Josh]

its only a handgun.

[chickenfried]

A first hand account was posted on here a while back. You might be able to find it.

[laabstract]

I have talked with vietnam vets about the 1911 and have been told stories of people surviving after getting shot 7 times. This is why shot placement is so important.

[Aluisious]

If you don't hit a major blood vessel (heart, arteries, major veins), there's no reason the target will die quickly.

Lungs are nothing special really, you're just making it hard for them to breathe. If you're hitting outside the thorax you're doing superficial damage.

[chiefcrash]

it's not unheard of. I've read stories of skydivers hitting the ground 'cause their chute didn't open and survive. sometimes the body can do crazy things...

[ocabj]

I remember this story from TFL. The actual store employee who shot the assailant posted his side of the story after the trial was over. IIRC, the assailant was shot with 230gr Hydrashoks. Bullets were recovered in the parking lot and there was no expansion.

[Aluisious]

I remember this story from TFL. The actual store employee who shot the assailant posted his side of the story after the trial was over. IIRC, the assailant was shot with 230gr Hydrashoks. Bullets were recovered in the parking lot and there was no expansion.

As a slight thread hijack, doesn't this suggest that we might be better off loading .45 FMJ for self defense?

Costs less to practice with your 'serious' ammo, assuredly better feeding reliability in 1911s, no worries about what will expand or not or whatever, you know that the onus is on you to place your shots where they will work and not hope for miraculous expansion to do the job?

Let the flames begin

[DRM6000]

I think it was up in the Santa Clara area IIRC. I remember something on THR or TFL regarding this incident. The individual who fired upon the assailant was an employee who was packing and was sued by the badguy afterwards.

what was the outcome of the suit?

someone must come up with legislation that would prohibit those who commit violent acts to sue property owners or victims if things go awry. if you can't steal by force, do it in court... *sigh*

[laabstract]

what was the outcome of the suit?

someone must come up with legislation that would prohibit those who commit violent acts to sue property owners or victims if things go awry. if you can't steal by force, do it in court... *sigh*

this is why you aim for the head.

[E. Fudd]

As a slight thread hijack, doesn't this suggest that we might be better off loading .45 FMJ for self defense?

Costs less to practice with your 'serious' ammo, assuredly better feeding reliability in 1911s, no worries about what will expand or not or whatever, you know that the onus is on you to place your shots where they will work and not hope for miraculous expansion to do the job?

Let the flames begin

Um, no.

1. FMJ overpenetrates (talk about lawsuits) and isn't as efficient at cutting blood vessels, damaging tissue as JHP or even SWC.

2. The better designs of the current gen of JHP bullets are much more consistent with expansion whether through clothing or not. Hydra-shoks have a rep for failing to expand reliably, when cloth plugs up the HP cavity...

3. If your handgun won't reliably feed HP's, get it fixed/throated/tuned or use another handgun that will reliably feed HP's. Most current gen handguns can handle HP, but you should always thoroughly function test with SD ammo before relying on it.

In 1911's some HP bullets feed better than others. I've had good luck w/ Winchester RA45T in Kimber, SA, & SW 1911's. In finickier 1911's, I've had good luck w/ Remington Golden Sabers.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

A blast from the past.

There were 4 shots total; 2 hits. 1st round was a clean COM direct hit on the bad guys left nipple. Round failed to expand; mushroomed only slightly and exited the body through the left shoulder blade. Round was recovered from the parking lot where this all went down.

2nd round impacted inside the badguy's right wrist causing him to drop the Colt Sporter he had, the round traveled up the inside of the arm flaying open the muscle tissue exposing bone and then exited vie the back of the upper arm just past the elbow.

Still creeps me out. Man that was messy.

[maxicon]

This was at the old National Shooting Club, now Reed's Range.

There was some firsthand info posted here quite a while back. One of the employees received a rare Santa Clara carry permit after this, in the truly convoluted LEO logic that you need a carry permit more *after* you've been threatened with a gun...

[Kruzr]

For those who are new to this story, Chris, or QuarterBoreGunner to us here and on other boards is the shooter and employee who saved the lives of the other two employees.

The story was posted here on the "old" Calguns and you can find his post on THR if you search.